Atlas Air Hiring
06-15-2018, 04:26 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
Globe, I'm not a conspiracy theory guy. I have NEVER even made reference to a conspiracy. We get a contract and the assessment goes away. That is not a conspiracy. That is fact. Thus, I don't think the union is in "any hurry". I heard what you said and it is obvious that you are firmly entrenched into the "amalgamation" argument. I have read numerous previous mergers and acquisitions awards and I know that if/when contract negotiations get to that point and moreover specific to our contract, an arbitrator must take into consideration proposals from both sides that account for industry peer comparisons, career expectations, and other elements before an award can be issued. So to expect me to believe that we'd go backwards from what we currently have and bring Southern up to parity is not realistic.
I have NEVER said that the union is refusing to settle. Please go back and search all of my words. I am confident you will never see that.
I have brought my concerns to EXCO members during new hire meetings when they have been present and to be quite honest we just get glazed over with political double speak. I'm not impressed.
I have NEVER said that the union is refusing to settle. Please go back and search all of my words. I am confident you will never see that.
I have brought my concerns to EXCO members during new hire meetings when they have been present and to be quite honest we just get glazed over with political double speak. I'm not impressed.
I know you fancy yourself to be quite the strategist but Amalgamating contracts with a Bankruptcy contract from Southern isn't a good deal for you. The 1% you'd get in ending the Strike Assessment would pale in comparison to the two extra days of work you'd owe Atlas a month. It'd probably be worth 1% of your pay to not be riding Coach from Dubai to Hong Kong. I'm a 747 Captain and I'd be leaving for Spirit or Jet Blue in that scenario due to the difference in retirement.
Agree to disagree but you wouldn't be getting my vote running a slate on a platform of "Let's Amalgamate so we can save 1% in Union Dues".
06-15-2018, 04:38 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
I don't think there is anybody that "supports" the "amalgamation" as it has been coined. It is the successorship section of the CBA. It is just what we are stuck with at this point. I think the frustration comes from knowing that since we are destined to lose this "minor" dispute in the eyes of an arbitrator, why are we delaying the inevitable? The answer is because our union leadership would rather risk the viability of the airline and it's relationship with valuable business partners to perpetuate attrition. I understand it, I just don't agree. IMO, it won't change the path nor the substance of the negotiations. In this day and age during this unprecedented time in our industry, I think diplomacy would have yielded greater results. If anything were to happen that resulted in the loss of a contract, the union is at risk of liability for condoning the SHOP and BOOT and perhaps even for just the perception that the union condoned such a hard line stance from the labor group and perhaps we could all be out of jobs. You think BK cares? NO! He is retired.
All of that would've been in there if we'd agreed to merge rules with Southern 2+ years ago and we'd have been riding coach on those long international flights as those weren't "(ACMI) Industry Standard" prior to Kalitta getting their new contract. That certainly would've been pulled as we were the only ACMI carrier to have it and it started to cost the company a ton of money that year. If you go back and read earnings calls Flynn was pressed on the travel costs and blamed them on new hires going to training when we had record open time that Spring due to a strike on the West Coast that shut down shipping.
By the way... Did I mention Kalitta's new contract wasn't here? So... Merge with Southern's rates... Now you're getting $120 an hour on the 767 as a Captain... Until we Merge with Centurion or Amerijet in 2021...
That was the deal 2+ years ago. But why delay things...
Right now Southern is at least on our retirement plan and the company may (probably will) eventually put them on our contract and we'd force them into Section 6 whether they like it or not. We're very close to that right now as nobody will work at Southern as a new hire. Heck... We're having trouble filling classes at Atlas and as we speak a 767 Captain who recently upgraded just texted me his CJO from FedEx.
That's why you don't agree to Amalgamate.
06-15-2018, 04:50 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 737
Right now Southern is at least on our retirement plan and the company may (probably will) eventually put them on our contract and we'd force them into Section 6 whether they like it or not. We're very close to that right now as nobody will work at Southern as a new hire. Heck... We're having trouble filling classes at Atlas and as we speak a 767 Captain who recently upgraded just texted me his CJO from FedEx.
That's why you don't agree to Amalgamate.
That's why you don't agree to Amalgamate.
The frustration, impatience and exasperation demonstrated by crew members like Dave are the "bargaining" equivalent of "buying high and selling low."
Weak and irresolute with poor comprehension of history and no vision for the future, they would have us all sell out RIGHT NOW.
I'm grateful for the younger, mid- to lower seniority crew members who GET IT.
Rock on.
06-15-2018, 05:01 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
Your last several posts have been spot on.
The frustration, impatience and exasperation demonstrated by crew members like Dave are the "bargaining" equivalent of "buying high and selling low."
Weak and irresolute with poor comprehension of history and no vision for the future, they would have us all sell out RIGHT NOW.
I'm grateful for the younger, mid- to lower seniority crew members who GET IT.
Rock on.
The frustration, impatience and exasperation demonstrated by crew members like Dave are the "bargaining" equivalent of "buying high and selling low."
Weak and irresolute with poor comprehension of history and no vision for the future, they would have us all sell out RIGHT NOW.
I'm grateful for the younger, mid- to lower seniority crew members who GET IT.
Rock on.
06-15-2018, 08:31 PM
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
This is a generalization. You assume that those that are critical don't volunteer. I am sure there are those that fall into the category of "critical non-helpers" but there are also those that are critical and still volunteer, i.e., P2P, flying the CBA to the letter at a minimum.
I understand what you are saying and I agree. If one is going to be critical, at the very least they should NOT be doing anything to circumvent one of the very few tools we have: The CBA. But at the same time, if unity is our message how is bashing other Atlas pilots on this forum helping our cause?
I understand what you are saying and I agree. If one is going to be critical, at the very least they should NOT be doing anything to circumvent one of the very few tools we have: The CBA. But at the same time, if unity is our message how is bashing other Atlas pilots on this forum helping our cause?
06-16-2018, 01:15 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 109
It comes from a lot of experience seeing this in action, actually. If, for example, you're on P2P and are actively calling out our EXCO in a public forum, your committee membership actually makes it a worse offense. It's a violation of trust and the commitment to service that comes with it.
CK and the now gone JC got their positions on the ExCo by using their positions on the P2P committee while shooting arrows at that existing ExCo at that time here. To the point they got fired off the P2P committee vs how the current ExCo used the 1224 President to remove those volunteers associated with the FPL amendment under false charges that were later exonerated in the end by the 1224 president.
There was even a little evil data piracy by the NextGen slate of new hire membership data by JH (now on the most recent exco) to help get the NextGen slate elected then. First to the fresh meat so to speak wins the majority. This, to the point, I was called upon to seek out the turncoat CK shooting our membership in the foot as explained earlier on the retirement LOA and the data theft post.
Teamsters, as ALPA, is selective in enforcement of the bylaws and the constitution is part of the problem.
It's sad that newer folks in our group just implicitly assume their leadership is beyond reproach. I, myself have never had any interest in leadership, but have a skill set to get things done without charging the union for it with the exception of 14 UB days over 20 years of volunteering at just Atlas alone, let alone other properties. To include donating equipment for the cause when there was no budget for it.
Having said this to your earlier response, what have you done?
06-16-2018, 07:16 AM
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
06-16-2018, 07:43 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
Was reading through the morass of messages since having to go do something else more productive. This one reply struck me as a little humorous. Especially when the ExCo prevents you from voicing your opinion via our private union web forums (now non-postable to) and even crew web calls for dues paying members when they don't like hearing what they have to say.
CK and the now gone JC got their positions on the ExCo by using their positions on the P2P committee while shooting arrows at that existing ExCo at that time here. To the point they got fired off the P2P committee vs how the current ExCo used the 1224 President to remove those volunteers associated with the FPL amendment under false charges that were later exonerated in the end by the 1224 president.
There was even a little evil data piracy by the NextGen slate of new hire membership data by JH (now on the most recent exco) to help get the NextGen slate elected then. First to the fresh meat so to speak wins the majority. This, to the point, I was called upon to seek out the turncoat CK shooting our membership in the foot as explained earlier on the retirement LOA and the data theft post.
Teamsters, as ALPA, is selective in enforcement of the bylaws and the constitution is part of the problem.
It's sad that newer folks in our group just implicitly assume their leadership is beyond reproach. I, myself have never had any interest in leadership, but have a skill set to get things done without charging the union for it with the exception of 14 UB days over 20 years of volunteering at just Atlas alone, let alone other properties. To include donating equipment for the cause when there was no budget for it.
Having said this to your earlier response, what have you done?
CK and the now gone JC got their positions on the ExCo by using their positions on the P2P committee while shooting arrows at that existing ExCo at that time here. To the point they got fired off the P2P committee vs how the current ExCo used the 1224 President to remove those volunteers associated with the FPL amendment under false charges that were later exonerated in the end by the 1224 president.
There was even a little evil data piracy by the NextGen slate of new hire membership data by JH (now on the most recent exco) to help get the NextGen slate elected then. First to the fresh meat so to speak wins the majority. This, to the point, I was called upon to seek out the turncoat CK shooting our membership in the foot as explained earlier on the retirement LOA and the data theft post.
Teamsters, as ALPA, is selective in enforcement of the bylaws and the constitution is part of the problem.
It's sad that newer folks in our group just implicitly assume their leadership is beyond reproach. I, myself have never had any interest in leadership, but have a skill set to get things done without charging the union for it with the exception of 14 UB days over 20 years of volunteering at just Atlas alone, let alone other properties. To include donating equipment for the cause when there was no budget for it.
Having said this to your earlier response, what have you done?
Keep telling yourself that it was a coincidence that CK shut that down and got elected... Twice.
06-16-2018, 10:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 306
Yes. The retirement LOA that none of us wanted. Why'd CK win after that? All of the young guys knew what he did. We voted for him because we didn't want to be paying for Pensions on our way to Delta, United, American, FedEx, Southwest, and UPS. It turned out to be a brilliant move on our part because now we're also leaving for Kalitta, Omni, Spirit, Net Jets, Jet Blue, L3, and Frontier. We also don't trust Atlas to be paying our retirements 50 years from now.
Keep telling yourself that it was a coincidence that CK shut that down and got elected... Twice.
Keep telling yourself that it was a coincidence that CK shut that down and got elected... Twice.
Right now it seems like a pension was turned down and we got NOTHING in return? WTF!
Also what data was taken? when?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
