Davetastic

I'm in the same boat! I had no idea how much we lost in pay protection either when I came here. I still say it. In fact, if I had heard this rather than, "don't come here", or "this place is a dumpster fire", I may not have made the jump. But to be fair, I am a commuter so my principal reason for being here is gateway. If they take that away, I am sure this place will crater.

I also like the schedules. As a commuter I was slowly dying doing the 4 on 3 off..... So, my method to counter the loss of pay protections is to work the contract to the letter! The other day at mid-pattern I was assigned R1 to which I made arrangements to travel home. On my last operating flight prior to R1 I received a call from scheduling at 31 minutes past block in which I ignored and went home. I had no idea the Galaxy S5 battery could get so hot!!

BluePAX

Agreed. Unfortunately I think these guys don’t really care about a receptive audience. I’ve even had a guy sit there and work himself up so badly that I pulled out some study material and didn’t tune back in for a while. Know your audience

TiredSoul

This I agree with.
In general people have no idea who I am and where I came from and what it took to get here.
To call that a “mistake” or “stupid” is insulting to say the least if you know nothing of the person’s background.

DC8DRIVER

The point is that most applicants that could get hired by Atlas would now have a better option by applying at Omni, Kalitta, Allegiant, or maybe even ATI (at this point, if it is just a couple of years of higher pay and a 76 type you're looking for, ATI would be better than Atlas).

As far as the message sender, some guys aren't the cool professors at college that people love to hear, but the message is still important and applicants ignore them at their own risk.

As far as perspective, sure chewing leather at Atlas may be better than chewing tree bark at your regional, but if K4 is serving up burgers, you'd be getting a better deal there. So, I maintain that a regional guy doesn't help himself when there are other, more lucrative opportunities that they could seize.

Unless, that is, you prefer the lower wages, or the contractural abuses, or the lack of retirement, or no pay protection, etc. etc. etc. ...

WhipWhitaker

AMEN. Goes for the cockpit, at breakfast, in the gym, in the crew lounges, at the bar.

Davetastic

I think you like to disagree with me 8 for the sake of disagreeing!!

No sooner did I AGREE with what you had said in your previous post because it was not laced with hysterical and exaggerated unsubstantiated claims, did you jump back on the, "Kalitta and Omni is a better place than Atlas" bandwagon. Sure, you toned it down a bit but for whom is [any other place] it better? That again is your opinion which, contrary to your original post to which I agreed, was to point out the positive and negative elements of Atlas life and let others decide!

You don't know what it is like at Omni, Kalitta, or any other airline because you are here. Regardless of what your buddy might say at "insert carrier here", the only way of knowing if it better elsewhere is to quit here and go to K4 and find out. Only then would one be able to navigate the elements of their contracts and who'd want to do that? Pay is not the only way to measure a carriers viability for a prospective candidate hence the flow of candidates that continue to apply to Atlas in lieu of applying to the likes of Omni.......et al.

To say that XYZ carrier is better than Atlas because of what is happening to YOU, is tantamount to imposing your opinion onto others which nobody cares to hear and quite frankly to which most on this thread are totally sick of hearing. Your K4 burger may be anothers K4 dogpile. So, I maintain, stick to the script: Atlas has poor pay, poor work rules, we need a better contract yadda yadda yadda....otherwise risk having those that would listen pulling out study materials on your flights.

College professors are not always right. In fact they should not ever be right or wrong. They should just be facilitators and nothing more, just like P2P members.

...and uh btw,.....since when did college professors become cool and that everybody loves to hear them? lol.

DC8DRIVER

Im not disagreeing with you and I don't need you to agree with me. I am offering my opinion to pilots who are looking at Atlas as a potential employer. Furthermore, here is nothing at all in my post that is a "hysterical and exaggerated unsubstantiated claim".

And, I'm not 'Imposing" my opinion on anyone. The purpose of the message boards is to offer opinions and let others make of those opinions what they will. Give pilots a little credit for having the intelligence to make up their own minds. The opinions and insights that I offer are very similar to the vast majority of opinions that other Atlas pilots post here. And when job seekers sift through these boards to make decisions, they weigh the number and believability of these messages and then filter those messages through their own experiences and needs to come up with an informed decision. They can see for themselves what the pay numbers, retirement, etc., are on the airline profiles.

What they look for ARE opinions from the crews that work at Atlas.

My opinion is that there are other ACMI carriers that are better than Atlas.

Your opinion is that my opinion is invalid.

Davetastic

8,

Don't take things too personally. I don't care if you agree with me or not. I was just making an observation in jest. Besides, this is a debate, not a message board war. I am not attacking your position, nor am I saying that your opinion is invalid. I agreed with you OP because it was NOT laced with the hysterical and wildly exaggerated unsubstantiated claims. In fact most on these message boards thank you for your input when they are put into the context of reality as you did a couple of posts back. Guys that come to the Atlas boards seeking info don't want to hear that Omni or Kalitta is better because of "XYZ" reasons. It is not because they don't want to hear of your opinion per se, but rather it is because it is impossible to capture the contract nuances and intricacies of why Omni or Kalitta is better because they are outsiders thereby rendering the examples mostly useless. Once is enough, leave it factual and move on. It is the constant bombardment of the same old tiresome arguments and exaggerated spins that turn people off of the message, consequently tuning those that are distorting the union solidarity message out. So, if you don't want to be thrown in the same bucket as those that people have tuned out, then just as a suggestion I'd tell ya to leave the spin out.

Again, I am NOT disagreeing with you, but there are those that will ask you why you are still here if you consistently claim that it is better elsewhere! And, I am not just asking you, I am asking EVERYONE that makes the same claim the same question! To say one thing and do another just make people think that you are part of the problem and not the solution.

Before you come unglued, I TOO think that there are other carriers that have FAR better work rules and pay and retirement, BUT that doesn't mean for me that it outweighs the positive elements of being at Atlas......for the time being. So when I am asked that same question, that is what I answer. And those seeking information about Atlas are also trying to see if their puzzle pieces in their lives have an Atlas piece or a United piece or [airline] piece. Nothing more, nothing less. So when they are attacked for their Atlas career choice it makes them question the motivations of those that claim to be union soldiers seeking solidarity and a better contract.

So, IMHO, I think that the "Don't come here, it is a dumpster fire" union argument targets too small an audience to be an effective solution into prying a CBA out of the company. There are too many intangibles in a prospective candidates life to make that particular argument a one size fits all solution, especially when it has been harped on and beaten to death to the point where people stop listening thereby substantially eroding the believability factor that you intend to convey.

JackStraw

The argument should actually be “stop telling your friends that, although it sucks here, they should apply and you will help get them hired”... and “applicants should stop diving head first in this dumpster fire just because their buddies got hired here.” This place is a disaster and there are other options far better than Atlas, but just because your friend is an Atlas pilot doesn’t mean you should be. Go to Allegiant or Omni or Kalitta and make more than your friend. They are hiring.

atpcliff

I just talked to a pilot who came out of recurrent training in MIA. They said that they talked to someone in charge there...the rate of new hires in Jan-Feb that didn't complete training was very high, both from pilots leaving, and those having training issues. I was quite surprised. I think that our training department needs to adopt again to applicants now with very different backgrounds than we were getting a year ago or so.