Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged (Post 2328863)

I have been asking the younger regional FO's why did they come to Alas? They pretty much all say that it is better than where they were, but only marginally better at this point. They came here thinking that we would have a good contract by now. They now see the facts and are leaving ASAP.

Should you turn a job down at Atlas? Well, that is the multi million dollar question for many younger pilots. I'll say a pilot 40 or younger. I tell people to come here if you have no other job offer. Is Atlas horrible? No, it is not that bad except for the fact that everywhere else is better now. Even K4 seems better now!

Atlas and Connie are about the only companies left in the true old skool freight/charter world. Atlas used to be the best of the worst, but the landscape has changed now.

Many of us old skool guys simply don't want to fly pax and are too established in our ways to make a change. Nobody wants to give up being a Skipper on a Whale to start at the bottom again. But when you have only been here a year or so and have a degree, you have to look at the simple math. You will lose over a million dollars by coming to Atlas. You decide...

Originally Posted by Davetastic (Post 2328866)

hos·tileˈhästl,ˈhäˌstīl/
adjective
adjective: hostile
unfriendly; antagonistic.
"a hostile audience"
synonyms:unfriendly, unkind, bitter, unsympathetic, malicious, vicious, rancorous, venomous, poisonous, virulent;


I asked the interwebs;[U]

Originally Posted by AtlasPilot1 (Post 2330295)

Another 9 Atlas pilots started at UPS today. Congrats!!!

....guess the effect will maybe show up on our seniority list by June...maybe. haha, lol!

Originally Posted by tahoejace (Post 2329093)

Dave, it's a shame your post will never resonate. Hyperbole rules the day, unfortunately.

All the cheap, petty things the company does to us on a daily basis are bad enough on their own. No need to couch them in over-the-top language like "hostile," "threatening," or "evil." All it does is just turn people off. Does nothing for our cause.

How about we give prospective applicants accurate information, without the histrionics, and let them be smart enough to make their own decisions.

Originally Posted by Davetastic (Post 2328866)

hos·tileˈhästl,ˈhäˌstīl/
adjective
adjective: hostile
unfriendly; antagonistic.
"a hostile audience"
synonyms:unfriendly, unkind, bitter, unsympathetic, malicious, vicious, rancorous, venomous, poisonous, virulent;


I asked the interwebs;

What constitutes a hostile work environment?
Harassment becomes unlawful where 1) enduring the offensive conduct becomes a condition of continued employment, or 2) the conduct is severe or pervasive enough to create a work environment that a reasonable person would consider intimidating, hostile, or abusive.



For me I like to use the literal meaning of a word to get my point across, not a twisted, distorted or perverse definition to unnecessarily rally support using rhetoric for a cause or position where support for that cause already has momentum. Our language is so powerful and we have vocabulary that is so vast that it becomes counterproductive to misuse definitions of words in an effort to enhance a standpoint whereby the target audience will inevitably procure, dissect and draw their own conclusions regardless of extemporaneous internet threads. In this case a candidate will walk in, expect extreme hardship and hostility based on the premise that Atlas is a hostile work environment. To make the argument that Atlas is a hostile work environment is hypocritical in nature because it is based on the notion that the goal in making the aforementioned argument is to incite fear in prospective candidates in hopes of either scaring them toward one position or another or to keep them from applying altogether. That being said, that same candidate will hypothetically conclude training, get online and may or may not witness the drama, hostility, and poisonous behavior that has disseminated through the rumor mill and may begin to make inferences that perhaps the rhetoric is being overplayed thereby diluting the cause to muster support toward obtaining a better contract. People come from different backgrounds and have different experiences therefore not everyone will agree to a particular point....and that is OK.


From my side of the proverbial table, it sucks to be going through these poor business decisions that Atlas is making in an effort to secure a better contract plain and simple. And it is because I am not sitting on the CEO's side of the table that I believe it is bad business. I do want more money and better work rules. If I were on the other side of that table however, I am sure my perspective and definition of good/bad business would change. But that is all it is....BUSINESS. This song and dance that Atlas and the union are engaging in is tantamount to political hearings and Senate confirmations: The target gets pulled through the ringer and then gets passed, one way or another. But do I think my work environment is unlawful or hostile to me personally in anyway, no.

This post is not directed toward anyone in particular. It is my personal opinion so if there are those that feel the urge to make me the recipient of a personal attack because of that opinion then I would implore that person to think twice before submitting or suffer the potential consequence from the multitude of individuals who read this forum that hold very dear the sanctity of freedom of speech.


and btw, well said Atlas Shrugged. Those that fall into some of those categories shouldn't be ridiculed for wanting to make Atlas a change from where they came regardless for the duration of their stay or dissenting opinion.

Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER (Post 2330737)

So what, exactly, do you consider to be "our cause"? Turning people ON to Atlas??


And, just to clarify: We can use language like " Cheap" and "Petty" but not "Hostile", "Threatening", or "Evil", right?

Consequently, Atlas has created a cheap work environment by filing a "petty" lawsuit against all of our pilots. And the petty move to amalgamate our substandard contract with the bankruptcy contract at SAI will result in cheap labor for them; but we all very much like working here.

So come work at Atlas.

Do I have that right?


FYI, our cause is to get the best contract and consequently, the best career possible. We don't get that by convincing ourselves and others that life here is great. It's all a matter of opinion whether or not the work environment here is "hostile" or "petty" or "cheap". I'll bet that Bill Flynn wouldn't consider anything about our jobs as being cheap or petty. Does that not make your post wrong and full of hyperbole?

OK. So you'll say potato and I'll say potaato and we'll agree to disagree on the verbiage, but I'll bet that prospective applicants that are qualified to be hired at Atlas are also qualified to be hired at Allegiant or Kalitta where the management of those companies is NOT suing the pilots and (this is hot off the press) not trying to prohibit their pilots from honoring strikes by fellow union pilot groups. And when faced with these facts, those qualified pilots would consider those actions to be (in the very least) negative factors and they would choose the airline that is not suing their pilots.

Maybe you like lawsuits and don't consider this to be hostile. Maybe you like to be sued, but most people do not. Maybe you like airline management groups that walk away from contract negotiations, but most pilots do not. Maybe you think pilots should be encouraged to come to Atlas to replace those who have left and allow growth under the current contract encouraging Atlas to drag out the negotiation process just as long as possible.

But most pilots do not.

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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER (Post 2330744)

suck
sək/Submit
verb
3rd person present: sucks
1.
draw into the mouth by contracting the muscles of the lip and mouth to make a partial vacuum.
"they suck mint juleps through straws"
synonyms: sip, sup, siphon, slurp, draw, drink
"they sucked orange juice through straws"
2.
involve (someone) in something without their choosing.
"I didn't want to be sucked into the role of dutiful daughter"
synonyms: implicate in, involve in, draw into; informalmix up in
"they got sucked into petty crime"

Clearly (and literally) it does not suck to be going through these poor business decisions that Atlas is making. There is neither mouth action nor did you get drawn into this without your choosing. This job was offered to you and you accepted, so being here is your choice. So, suck is, literally, the wrong word.

Personally, however, I agree with you that it sucks to be going through these poor business decisions that Atlas is making (regardless of the literal meaning of the word), but, as you needlessly point out, the guys on the other side of the table do not share your feelings. They gave themselves a 66 million dollar bonus and they make competitive salaries with their peers at other airlines.

But, please feel free to continue to contradict the other pilots who have strong feelings about their situation at Atlas and tell them they use the wrong words. Continue to downplay the situation here and encourage pilots to get hired at Atlas and make life easier for Atlas management to continue to operate business as usual fulfilling their contracts with an underpaid and overworked pilot group (as compared to our peer pilot groups).

That's what freedom of speech is all about.

But, please take a moment to consider whether your posts are helpful for your fellow pilots or helpful for the company.

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