BYOB

Great response. What is "better" for one is not "better" for another. I each their own. I had a high school English teacher (I HATED English) that gave me a card the day I graduated. She signed it, "To thine own self be true." As I've aged and matured I've held those words near and dear to my heart. There is greater wisdom in those words than you can fathom.

NikeBuddy

We might be missing the point here though fellas. Do guys write what you just wrote as pilots for Delta, AMR, et al? Nope. Do discussions abound in the FedEx crew room about trying to leave? Nope. That's the point. True some guys on property will stay, but if you have other choices, do you want to work for a place that people actually have to justify staying at, and not at a place where staying is a given?

FLYZERG

Sorry if this has already been asked but is APC correct when it says that training pay is 1600 a month? After or before taxes? On one line it says training includes per diem but on the next line it says per diem stops in training, which is it? Just general take home while in training and what to expect to bring home during first year after OE. My costs at home are not out of control but there is a ~1200 mortgage to pay.
Thanks

NoJoy

First two months on property is $1600 a month (gross) plus per diem. ($2.40hrx24 for 8-9 weeks of training). Per diem for our class was a month behind-so the Sept class got their "big" check in Oct. Now while you are waiting for OE (depending if your on the 74 or 76), it can be another two months at $1600.00 a month (gross)-no per diem. At month four, you will get off training pay, then onto your 50hr guarantee. (new hire pay for the first year).
Once your flying though-most are getting alot more credit hrs than 50.

FLYZERG

Thanks for the quick reply.

Professor Chaos

Ah yes, the grass is ALWAYS greener...

And I've never met a Delta/FedEx/American pilot who wasn't ecstatic about his job and company. In fact, the Delta pilots are so happy with the way they're being treated and valued by their management that they overwhelmingly voted down the latest TA offered.

Delta/American/United/FedEx/Fill-In-The-Blank are the Promised Land, or Holy Grail, of flying jobs for many (maybe even most?) pilots. But not for all. Some are quite happy (perhaps a foreign concept for many pilots) flying twin Otters in the Alaskan Bush, or flying a Hawker 900 in a corporate gig.

I for one can't think of a more miserable group of human beings than the old US Airways (East, to be specific) pilots. But, hey, it's a major (or was) so anyone would be stupid not to go there, right? As for me, you couldn't stuff enough cash into a 747 main cargo deck to get me to ever have gone to work there. But that's just one man's opinion, so treat it as such.

I appreciate your points, and I agree that Atlas pilots are grossly under paid, and the current working agreement has a lot that needs to be addressed. But let's not over-exaggerate the virtual salt mine conditions we labor under every day. Prospective new hires shouldn't come here starry-eyed, because no place is perfect. No place. They need to have a realistic understanding of just what working for Atlas entails so they can make as informed a career decision as possible that best suits their individual needs.

While I wish the best for those whose ultimate goal is to get on with a Delta/FedEx, I also recognize that there are others who are willing to take a stand here at Atlas to fix what's broken, instead of chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

727C47

You are a very wise man.

Upntheair27

Very well said!


QUOTE=Professor Chaos;2044212]Ah yes, the grass is ALWAYS greener...

And I've never met a Delta/FedEx/American pilot who wasn't ecstatic about his job and company. In fact, the Delta pilots are so happy with the way they're being treated and valued by their management that they overwhelmingly voted down the latest TA offered.

Delta/American/United/FedEx/Fill-In-The-Blank are the Promised Land, or Holy Grail, of flying jobs for many (maybe even most?) pilots. But not for all. Some are quite happy (perhaps a foreign concept for many pilots) flying twin Otters in the Alaskan Bush, or flying a Hawker 900 in a corporate gig.

I for one can't think of a more miserable group of human beings than the old US Airways (East, to be specific) pilots. But, hey, it's a major (or was) so anyone would be stupid not to go there, right? As for me, you couldn't stuff enough cash into a 747 main cargo deck to get me to ever have gone to work there. But that's just one man's opinion, so treat it as such.

I appreciate your points, and I agree that Atlas pilots are grossly under paid, and the current working agreement has a lot that needs to be addressed. But let's not over-exaggerate the virtual salt mine conditions we labor under every day. Prospective new hires shouldn't come here starry-eyed, because no place is perfect. No place. They need to have a realistic understanding of just what working for Atlas entails so they can make as informed a career decision as possible that best suits their individual needs.

While I wish the best for those whose ultimate goal is to get on with a Delta/FedEx, I also recognize that there are others who are willing to take a stand here at Atlas to fix what's broken, instead of chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.[/QUOTE]

NikeBuddy

Voting down TA's (Delta, etc), and griping about the company you work for (all pilots!) is a LONG WAY from your OWN UNION telling you to LEAVE! Equating the two is not an honest comparison. The more we poo-poo the conditions here (in comparison to our direct competitors) the further we are from a solution.

I realize some are happy flying otters, etc etc. Great! People here didn't choose to do that. They chose to fly a 747 around the world on 17 day trips, and should be compensated as such.
"over-exaggerate the virtual salt mine conditions we labor under every day"
Seriously?! Please promise us that when the negotiation rubber meets the road sometime this year that you won't go sounding that nonsense in the flight deck. Sit down and have a read of our competitors contracts...get back to us on that exaggeration.

I appreciate your desire to be moderate in tone...but is it really time for that?

744driver

Your original ill-informed post has so many wrong assumptions it is nearly pointless to discuss it here.

However, just a quick note about THE union -- have you given even one moment of thought to why they sent that message out? Did you stop to think THE union may have a motive here?

One can fault the company all day long here, and even some of our pilots that do the company's bidding and violate our own CBA...but don't think for a minute that THE union is to be blamed here. Quite the opposite -- how many times have you heard our own leadership tell us to follow the CBA, don't do any favors, don't do HDQ staffers' jobs, etc etc...

Okay, your post is ****ing me off, and I'll will not let you raise my blood pressure. I'm outta here...goodnight.