Resigned in training
07-21-2024, 11:24 PM
#31
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,260
I've responded to ridiculous suggestions, such as an obligation to list a job offer received on a resume. That's foolish and not done, and I'm not wrong about that, either.
Let the original poster do as he chooses. He may wish to see if his PC-12 job is still available.
07-22-2024, 03:25 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Position: 737
Posts: 315
One is never obligated to cite all one's employment on the resume. Mine would be several pages long if I did that. The only purpose of a resume is to gete an interview. It's not a job application. The original poster will need to fill out a job application anywhere he goes, and that application will include his work history and a brief reason for leaving each job. There is no valid reason to put any employment on the resume which does not paint him in the best light, and say "hire me."
He will not be waiting for a background check for his employment in training at Atlas, to be reevealed. That information will be disclosed both in the application process, and in the interview.
He has no reason to list that information on his resume, unless his work experience or career highlights are so limited that he's got nothing else to put on the resume. Only put things on the resume which will help. If one is applying to an airline, list relevant experience. If one is applying to a utility operator, that's a very differeent background, and more relevant information might be better tailored for that operator. The resume is little more than a knock on the door, and any information that requires an explanation ought not be what one leads with when introducing himself. "Hi, I'm Bob, a former alcoholic, how are you today, sir? Alrighty then..." Perhaps just "Hi, I'm Bob, how are you today, sir?" Find out if the employer wants to talk, before offering any more.
Resumes list career highlights and helpful work experience that makes one a more desirable candidate. One does not generally list job offers. I don't believe I have ever seen a resume that listed job offers as experience. One also doesn't list one's divorce or time spent working on the family boat, or information about one's socks. List work history or experience that gets one an interview.
There is nothing hidden. A full work history, including the training history, will come into play with the job applicaiton. A resume is not expected to be a complete history; it's a quick rundown on one's qualifications for the job: certification, flight time, career highlights, etc. If one was involved in an aircraft mishap, one wouldn't put that in big letters at the top of the resume, but one would explain that later, and most applications ask that question. Likewise, most applications ask about training failures; while this is not a training failure, it does require more than a byline on a resume, and the job application is the place to put that experience and a truncated explanation (which can be expanded upon in person, if an interview is forthcoming).
He will not be waiting for a background check for his employment in training at Atlas, to be reevealed. That information will be disclosed both in the application process, and in the interview.
He has no reason to list that information on his resume, unless his work experience or career highlights are so limited that he's got nothing else to put on the resume. Only put things on the resume which will help. If one is applying to an airline, list relevant experience. If one is applying to a utility operator, that's a very differeent background, and more relevant information might be better tailored for that operator. The resume is little more than a knock on the door, and any information that requires an explanation ought not be what one leads with when introducing himself. "Hi, I'm Bob, a former alcoholic, how are you today, sir? Alrighty then..." Perhaps just "Hi, I'm Bob, how are you today, sir?" Find out if the employer wants to talk, before offering any more.
Resumes list career highlights and helpful work experience that makes one a more desirable candidate. One does not generally list job offers. I don't believe I have ever seen a resume that listed job offers as experience. One also doesn't list one's divorce or time spent working on the family boat, or information about one's socks. List work history or experience that gets one an interview.
There is nothing hidden. A full work history, including the training history, will come into play with the job applicaiton. A resume is not expected to be a complete history; it's a quick rundown on one's qualifications for the job: certification, flight time, career highlights, etc. If one was involved in an aircraft mishap, one wouldn't put that in big letters at the top of the resume, but one would explain that later, and most applications ask that question. Likewise, most applications ask about training failures; while this is not a training failure, it does require more than a byline on a resume, and the job application is the place to put that experience and a truncated explanation (which can be expanded upon in person, if an interview is forthcoming).
07-22-2024, 07:56 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: Part time employee
Posts: 205
He really needs good advice
[QUOTE=JohnBurke;3822068]No one here, in any way, shape, or form, least of all me, as suggested otherwise.
There's more than one way to skin a cat, or assemble a resume; my continued response is not to those who offer varying opinions, but to those (yourself, for example) who quote me to say point-blank: you're wrong. I'm not wrong. The original poster may complete his resume as he sees fit (and may or may not get an intereview invitee thereafter).
I've responded to ridiculous suggestions, such as an obligation to list a job offer received on a resume. That's foolish and not done, and I'm not wrong about that, either.
Let the original poster do as he chooses. He may wish to see if his PC-12 job is still available. Advising him to "do as he chooses" implies that the option to leave it off his resume is OK. Let's examine his situation;
He had a very limited aviation background and landing a 121 training opportunity was a big deal.
The resume is too outline his aviation background and his shot at Atlas is current and significant.
To omit it in the hopes of getting an interview so that he can explain it later is really bad advice. As mentioned it is viewed as being deceptive and manipulative and nobody in the process views it favorably.
In some cases a 121 failure or withdrawal cannot be overlooked and he will not get an offer. He needs to put some time down after this withdrawal, get the best job he can land, complete a decent formal training program or two and he can recover. There are also outfits that will give him a shot with a good explanation. This is where the coaching will help.
He needs to fully own it, recover and move on.
There's more than one way to skin a cat, or assemble a resume; my continued response is not to those who offer varying opinions, but to those (yourself, for example) who quote me to say point-blank: you're wrong. I'm not wrong. The original poster may complete his resume as he sees fit (and may or may not get an intereview invitee thereafter).
I've responded to ridiculous suggestions, such as an obligation to list a job offer received on a resume. That's foolish and not done, and I'm not wrong about that, either.
Let the original poster do as he chooses. He may wish to see if his PC-12 job is still available. Advising him to "do as he chooses" implies that the option to leave it off his resume is OK. Let's examine his situation;
He had a very limited aviation background and landing a 121 training opportunity was a big deal.
The resume is too outline his aviation background and his shot at Atlas is current and significant.
To omit it in the hopes of getting an interview so that he can explain it later is really bad advice. As mentioned it is viewed as being deceptive and manipulative and nobody in the process views it favorably.
In some cases a 121 failure or withdrawal cannot be overlooked and he will not get an offer. He needs to put some time down after this withdrawal, get the best job he can land, complete a decent formal training program or two and he can recover. There are also outfits that will give him a shot with a good explanation. This is where the coaching will help.
He needs to fully own it, recover and move on.
07-22-2024, 10:54 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 337
He was in initial. He never made it to his type ride. It doesn't matter if he worked for the White House or Atlas or Walmart. He has no obligation to put his brief time in an uncompleted training program, on his resume.
He's got to get to the interview, first.
When he gets there, the interviewer will have the job-seeker's completed application, and complete work history going back x years.
What if one has more experience than fits on half a single sheet of paper? Of course experience will be ommitted.
Someone suggested that a job offer must be placed on the resume; a ridiculous notion that for anyone with any significant length of industry experiencee, would easily be too long to fit on the resume. Of course that doesn't go on a resume. In fact, job offers don't go on job applications, either. They're not trophies, and don't enhance one's value or marketability.
There's no confusion when one provides a complete, detailed work history in a job application. "Omission" from a resum is not a faux pas, given that a job-seeker is not expected to list everything about the job seeker, on the resume, nor is it expected that a potential employer will know everything about an applicant based on a resume. It is expected that an application and an interview will yield more information about the job seeker, than what is contained on the resume. No confusion about that, at all.
He's got to get to the interview, first.
When he gets there, the interviewer will have the job-seeker's completed application, and complete work history going back x years.
What if one has more experience than fits on half a single sheet of paper? Of course experience will be ommitted.
Someone suggested that a job offer must be placed on the resume; a ridiculous notion that for anyone with any significant length of industry experiencee, would easily be too long to fit on the resume. Of course that doesn't go on a resume. In fact, job offers don't go on job applications, either. They're not trophies, and don't enhance one's value or marketability.
There's no confusion when one provides a complete, detailed work history in a job application. "Omission" from a resum is not a faux pas, given that a job-seeker is not expected to list everything about the job seeker, on the resume, nor is it expected that a potential employer will know everything about an applicant based on a resume. It is expected that an application and an interview will yield more information about the job seeker, than what is contained on the resume. No confusion about that, at all.
Lol you just said your resume is your "advertisement". When they see that the Atlas stint wasn't advertised, they're going to wonder why. I mean it's Atlas Air after all, not Bob's flying service. Good luck with that. I guess you're not wrong, because you might be able to get away with it once you make it to the interview in hopes they don't ask but it's definitley not good advice and very risky.
07-22-2024, 11:45 AM
#35
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,215
He’s not wrong it’s just a bit of a departure from the crowd that are trying to squeeze everything in their resume.
Somewhat related unrelated, I once got a 7 page resume for a entry level CFI position.
This person was transitioning from another industry entirely and had listed all of his accomplishments down to minute detail.
Yeah, don’t need all that thanks.
Same with CFI resumes that list 1.7 hrs of KingAir time. It’s just useless fluff.
You don’t list your speeding tickets or your checkride failures on your resume either.
So…I agree with JB on this one.
Don’t lie about it but it’s up to them to ask the questions.
Somewhat related unrelated, I once got a 7 page resume for a entry level CFI position.
This person was transitioning from another industry entirely and had listed all of his accomplishments down to minute detail.
Yeah, don’t need all that thanks.
Same with CFI resumes that list 1.7 hrs of KingAir time. It’s just useless fluff.
You don’t list your speeding tickets or your checkride failures on your resume either.
So…I agree with JB on this one.
Don’t lie about it but it’s up to them to ask the questions.
07-22-2024, 11:52 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 180
He’s not wrong it’s just a bit of a departure from the crowd that are trying to squeeze everything in their resume.
Somewhat related unrelated, I once got a 7 page resume for a entry level CFI position.
This person was transitioning from another industry entirely and had listed all of his accomplishments down to minute detail.
Yeah, don’t need all that thanks.
Same with CFI resumes that list 1.7 hrs of KingAir time. It’s just useless fluff.
You don’t list your speeding tickets or your checkride failures on your resume either.
So…I agree with JB on this one.
Don’t lie about it but it’s up to them to ask the questions.
Somewhat related unrelated, I once got a 7 page resume for a entry level CFI position.
This person was transitioning from another industry entirely and had listed all of his accomplishments down to minute detail.
Yeah, don’t need all that thanks.
Same with CFI resumes that list 1.7 hrs of KingAir time. It’s just useless fluff.
You don’t list your speeding tickets or your checkride failures on your resume either.
So…I agree with JB on this one.
Don’t lie about it but it’s up to them to ask the questions.
07-22-2024, 01:04 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: Part time employee
Posts: 205
We are both kind of right here. I went to the principal at one of the coaching services and this is what I got;
"There are two options on how to address that. One is to list themselves as first officer trainee on the resume, the other is to leave it off the resume and include it on the application. Either way is perfectly fine, as long as they bring it up verbally to the recruiter ahead of time. Bringing it up in the interview is a very quick way to get the boot and sent back home. It will look like the person was trying to intentionally lie or evade."
The salient point here is that you must address it early, either on the resume or your first contact with a recruiter or in Atlas' case the screeners. Our screeners work off the resume and don't see the application, so the candidate must divulge this information before the interiew If they wait for the interview they will earn a pass and may even be placed in the "Never Again" pile..
"There are two options on how to address that. One is to list themselves as first officer trainee on the resume, the other is to leave it off the resume and include it on the application. Either way is perfectly fine, as long as they bring it up verbally to the recruiter ahead of time. Bringing it up in the interview is a very quick way to get the boot and sent back home. It will look like the person was trying to intentionally lie or evade."
The salient point here is that you must address it early, either on the resume or your first contact with a recruiter or in Atlas' case the screeners. Our screeners work off the resume and don't see the application, so the candidate must divulge this information before the interiew If they wait for the interview they will earn a pass and may even be placed in the "Never Again" pile..
07-22-2024, 01:08 PM
#38
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,215
You guys are so detached from current hiring practices it's insane. Even if you don't list it on your resume, practically every airline will ask if you have resigned in training, or require a comprehensive work history in the application. The recruiter will instantly sniff out the discrepancy and ask why they don't match up. If they don't, then the background check/PRD check will show it regardless. Hell, my PRD has a "resigned in training" for an airline I've never started indoc for.
Resume is not THE application, rather it is part of it.
You upload your resume, somewhere in the application process it will ask if you ever failed a checkride or dropped out of a training program. That’s where you answer YES.
Then it’s up to your prep course how well you answer it when it comes time to interview.
But first figure out what’s broken and he keeps dancing around that one.
07-22-2024, 02:41 PM
#39
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2024
Posts: 1
No offense.
You said SIT not SIM correct?
Whats going on that you couldn’t make it through a procedure training device?
What does the lack of jet time have to do with a fixed base procedure trainer?
Those are steps you’re supposed to prepare for and practice with your training partner.
You have access to all the lessons on your iPad.
What’s really going on here?
You said SIT not SIM correct?
Whats going on that you couldn’t make it through a procedure training device?
What does the lack of jet time have to do with a fixed base procedure trainer?
Those are steps you’re supposed to prepare for and practice with your training partner.
You have access to all the lessons on your iPad.
What’s really going on here?
Cheers!
07-22-2024, 03:50 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 337
He’s not wrong it’s just a bit of a departure from the crowd that are trying to squeeze everything in their resume.
Somewhat related unrelated, I once got a 7 page resume for a entry level CFI position.
This person was transitioning from another industry entirely and had listed all of his accomplishments down to minute detail.
Yeah, don’t need all that thanks.
Same with CFI resumes that list 1.7 hrs of KingAir time. It’s just useless fluff.
You don’t list your speeding tickets or your checkride failures on your resume either.
So…I agree with JB on this one.
Don’t lie about it but it’s up to them to ask the questions.
Somewhat related unrelated, I once got a 7 page resume for a entry level CFI position.
This person was transitioning from another industry entirely and had listed all of his accomplishments down to minute detail.
Yeah, don’t need all that thanks.
Same with CFI resumes that list 1.7 hrs of KingAir time. It’s just useless fluff.
You don’t list your speeding tickets or your checkride failures on your resume either.
So…I agree with JB on this one.
Don’t lie about it but it’s up to them to ask the questions.
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