Resigned in training
07-21-2024, 05:34 PM
#21
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,220
Psych Eval complete - What's next?
07-21-2024, 05:49 PM
#22
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,291
You must be kidding right? This is terrible advice. Of course he has to put this on his resume. It's a flying job and not to mention he went though a major training event with an air carrier. If you are a recruiter at an airline or any other air carrier, wouldn't you like to know that he has worked at Atlas and that he has been through at least partial training? It would be a major red flag if they see it later without his disclosure.
A resume is not a legal document.
A resume is not a job application.
A resume is not a declaration.
A resume is not a comprehensive work history.
A resume does NOT need to list every job one has held.
A resume has ONE purpose, and ONE purpose only: to seek a job intereview.
Some ACMI operators place the pilot in initial as a contractor, not as an employee.
A resume should focus on trophy experience; one's best foot forward: Here, I was a check airman; There, I cured cancer; Here, I painted a priceless portrait; There, I wrote a best selling novel.
A resume should not focus on expeirences that do not promote the job-seeker. Here, I didn't make it through training. There, I quit early. Here, I hired on as a janitor even though I applied as a pilot. There, I failed my type ride. Here, I had a job offer, but never got hired. There, I got hired but didn't stay.
There is no obligation to list anything on the resume that does not promote the job-seeker in the best light.
All will be declared on the job application. All will be declared in the interview. All will be documented in both, and in the PRD check, which will only confirm what's been declared.
If one does feel it necessary to cite the training on a resume, then simply list the dates and note "attended initial training, B737." It will raise red flags and one may get no further in the application process, but one can feel altruistic about having declared it up front on the resume. HR persons who are looking at work history will note less than two months "employment" and that the "job" never progressed beyond training, and the job-seeker may never get a chance to tell his story, but hey, at least he got it on his resume, where it won't do him, or anyone else any good.
I have far more experience than will fit on a single sheet of paper. I keep a word document that has all the details of my work history, with fax, phone, address, description, and details, of each employer. It's seven pages long. When I put career highlights on the resume, that's it, and all it is. Were I to apply to an airline, I'd list relevant airline experience. Were I to apply to a corporate job, I'd list corporate experience, to a government position, relevant experience, utility, likewise, and whatever else enhanced that experience relative to the job to which I might apply. The full details will show up on a job application, but not on a resume. I certainly would NEVER put job offers on a resume, and if I attended training and never went to work for an operator, that would absolutely NEVER show up on the resume. Nothing to hide, but the resume is not the place to put that. However, if one feels absolutely necessary the confessional of the resume, to fill empty space because there's nothing else to list there or no other experience to cite, then have at it.
Never falsify, nor lie on a resume (by commission, or omission). Omitting a job on a resume, howevere, is not deceptive, nor a lie of omission. One is hiding nothing; all will be declared. Hiding it on a job application or in an interview would certainly be deceptive, and would be enough to lose the job on the spot. Not citing it on the resume is not the same thing, as the only purpose of the resume is to provide enough information about the qualifications of the job-seeker to garner attention. The resume and cover letter serve one purpose, and only one purpose: to request an interview. A lot more will be given in the application paperwork, and in the interivew, than what shows up on a resume, but then, that's the purpose of th interview, isn't it?
07-21-2024, 06:24 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 350
No, he doesn't need to put it on his resume.
A resume is not a legal document.
A resume is not a job application.
A resume is not a declaration.
A resume is not a comprehensive work history.
A resume does NOT need to list every job one has held.
A resume has ONE purpose, and ONE purpose only: to seek a job intereview.
Some ACMI operators place the pilot in initial as a contractor, not as an employee.
A resume should focus on trophy experience; one's best foot forward: Here, I was a check airman; There, I cured cancer; Here, I painted a priceless portrait; There, I wrote a best selling novel.
A resume should not focus on expeirences that do not promote the job-seeker. Here, I didn't make it through training. There, I quit early. Here, I hired on as a janitor even though I applied as a pilot. There, I failed my type ride. Here, I had a job offer, but never got hired. There, I got hired but didn't stay.
There is no obligation to list anything on the resume that does not promote the job-seeker in the best light.
All will be declared on the job application. All will be declared in the interview. All will be documented in both, and in the PRD check, which will only confirm what's been declared.
If one does feel it necessary to cite the training on a resume, then simply list the dates and note "attended initial training, B737." It will raise red flags and one may get no further in the application process, but one can feel altruistic about having declared it up front on the resume. HR persons who are looking at work history will note less than two months "employment" and that the "job" never progressed beyond training, and the job-seeker may never get a chance to tell his story, but hey, at least he got it on his resume, where it won't do him, or anyone else any good.
I have far more experience than will fit on a single sheet of paper. I keep a word document that has all the details of my work history, with fax, phone, address, description, and details, of each employer. It's seven pages long. When I put career highlights on the resume, that's it, and all it is. Were I to apply to an airline, I'd list relevant airline experience. Were I to apply to a corporate job, I'd list corporate experience, to a government position, relevant experience, utility, likewise, and whatever else enhanced that experience relative to the job to which I might apply. The full details will show up on a job application, but not on a resume. I certainly would NEVER put job offers on a resume, and if I attended training and never went to work for an operator, that would absolutely NEVER show up on the resume. Nothing to hide, but the resume is not the place to put that. However, if one feels absolutely necessary the confessional of the resume, to fill empty space because there's nothing else to list there or no other experience to cite, then have at it.
Never falsify, nor lie on a resume (by commission, or omission). Omitting a job on a resume, howevere, is not deceptive, nor a lie of omission. One is hiding nothing; all will be declared. Hiding it on a job application or in an interview would certainly be deceptive, and would be enough to lose the job on the spot. Not citing it on the resume is not the same thing, as the only purpose of the resume is to provide enough information about the qualifications of the job-seeker to garner attention. The resume and cover letter serve one purpose, and only one purpose: to request an interview. A lot more will be given in the application paperwork, and in the interivew, than what shows up on a resume, but then, that's the purpose of th interview, isn't it?
A resume is not a legal document.
A resume is not a job application.
A resume is not a declaration.
A resume is not a comprehensive work history.
A resume does NOT need to list every job one has held.
A resume has ONE purpose, and ONE purpose only: to seek a job intereview.
Some ACMI operators place the pilot in initial as a contractor, not as an employee.
A resume should focus on trophy experience; one's best foot forward: Here, I was a check airman; There, I cured cancer; Here, I painted a priceless portrait; There, I wrote a best selling novel.
A resume should not focus on expeirences that do not promote the job-seeker. Here, I didn't make it through training. There, I quit early. Here, I hired on as a janitor even though I applied as a pilot. There, I failed my type ride. Here, I had a job offer, but never got hired. There, I got hired but didn't stay.
There is no obligation to list anything on the resume that does not promote the job-seeker in the best light.
All will be declared on the job application. All will be declared in the interview. All will be documented in both, and in the PRD check, which will only confirm what's been declared.
If one does feel it necessary to cite the training on a resume, then simply list the dates and note "attended initial training, B737." It will raise red flags and one may get no further in the application process, but one can feel altruistic about having declared it up front on the resume. HR persons who are looking at work history will note less than two months "employment" and that the "job" never progressed beyond training, and the job-seeker may never get a chance to tell his story, but hey, at least he got it on his resume, where it won't do him, or anyone else any good.
I have far more experience than will fit on a single sheet of paper. I keep a word document that has all the details of my work history, with fax, phone, address, description, and details, of each employer. It's seven pages long. When I put career highlights on the resume, that's it, and all it is. Were I to apply to an airline, I'd list relevant airline experience. Were I to apply to a corporate job, I'd list corporate experience, to a government position, relevant experience, utility, likewise, and whatever else enhanced that experience relative to the job to which I might apply. The full details will show up on a job application, but not on a resume. I certainly would NEVER put job offers on a resume, and if I attended training and never went to work for an operator, that would absolutely NEVER show up on the resume. Nothing to hide, but the resume is not the place to put that. However, if one feels absolutely necessary the confessional of the resume, to fill empty space because there's nothing else to list there or no other experience to cite, then have at it.
Never falsify, nor lie on a resume (by commission, or omission). Omitting a job on a resume, howevere, is not deceptive, nor a lie of omission. One is hiding nothing; all will be declared. Hiding it on a job application or in an interview would certainly be deceptive, and would be enough to lose the job on the spot. Not citing it on the resume is not the same thing, as the only purpose of the resume is to provide enough information about the qualifications of the job-seeker to garner attention. The resume and cover letter serve one purpose, and only one purpose: to request an interview. A lot more will be given in the application paperwork, and in the interivew, than what shows up on a resume, but then, that's the purpose of th interview, isn't it?
If he folows your advice, he might make it to the intervew but he'll never get hired. They will still go through his resume. And when they go through his background, they're going to see that he's "resigned in training" which i'm sure they know what that really means anyways. So save yourself the trouble, and disclose it from the beginning, at least that you were there for a few months.
07-21-2024, 06:35 PM
#24
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,291
If he folows your advice, he might make it to the intervew but he'll never get hired. When they go through his background, they're going to see that he's "resigned in training" which i'm sure they know what that really means anyways. So save yourself the trouble, and disclose it from the beginning, at least that you worked there for a few months.
Long before an employere does a background check, the matter will have been discussed where it should be: in person, in the interview.
A resume is not a confessional, nor a "disclosure." It's an advertisemeent. It isn't the fine print. It's the glossy ad.
07-21-2024, 07:28 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 350
Long before an employer getes to his "background," they'll see his work history listed on his JOB APPLICATION (where it belongs, rather than his resume).
Long before an employere does a background check, the matter will have been discussed where it should be: in person, in the interview.
A resume is not a confessional, nor a "disclosure." It's an advertisemeent. It isn't the fine print. It's the glossy ad.
Long before an employere does a background check, the matter will have been discussed where it should be: in person, in the interview.
A resume is not a confessional, nor a "disclosure." It's an advertisemeent. It isn't the fine print. It's the glossy ad.
07-21-2024, 08:40 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 747
Posts: 362
07-21-2024, 10:22 PM
#28
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,291
When he gets there, the interviewer will have the job-seeker's completed application, and complete work history going back x years.
Someone suggested that a job offer must be placed on the resume; a ridiculous notion that for anyone with any significant length of industry experiencee, would easily be too long to fit on the resume. Of course that doesn't go on a resume. In fact, job offers don't go on job applications, either. They're not trophies, and don't enhance one's value or marketability.
There's no confusion when one provides a complete, detailed work history in a job application. "Omission" from a resum is not a faux pas, given that a job-seeker is not expected to list everything about the job seeker, on the resume, nor is it expected that a potential employer will know everything about an applicant based on a resume. It is expected that an application and an interview will yield more information about the job seeker, than what is contained on the resume. No confusion about that, at all.
07-21-2024, 10:38 PM
#29
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,609
I see JBs point, most adults can't fit their entire work history on a resume. That's what the job application is for. They go hand-in-hand, for example, when using airlineapps some employers dont even ask for a resume, it's your application that gets submitted.
Your next career maneuver is the most important one you'll ever do. Very few careers can emerge from back-to-back airline failures.
So make sure you are prepared. A PC12 SIC can pass the 737 program, there's something else going on here and you need to figure it out before trying again.
Your next career maneuver is the most important one you'll ever do. Very few careers can emerge from back-to-back airline failures.
So make sure you are prepared. A PC12 SIC can pass the 737 program, there's something else going on here and you need to figure it out before trying again.
07-21-2024, 10:48 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: Part time employee
Posts: 209
Sorry, your understanding is flawed
He was in initial. He never made it to his type ride. It doesn't matter if he worked for the White House or Atlas or Walmart. He has no obligation to put his brief time in an uncompleted training program, on his resume.
He's got to get to the interview, first.
When he gets there, the interviewer will have the job-seeker's completed application, and complete work history going back x years.
What if one has more experience than fits on half a single sheet of paper? Of course experience will be ommitted.
Someone suggested that a job offer must be placed on the resume; a ridiculous notion that for anyone with any significant length of industry experiencee, would easily be too long to fit on the resume. Of course that doesn't go on a resume. In fact, job offers don't go on job applications, either. They're not trophies, and don't enhance one's value or marketability.
There's no confusion when one provides a complete, detailed work history in a job application. "Omission" from a resum is not a faux pas, given that a job-seeker is not expected to list everything about the job seeker, on the resume, nor is it expected that a potential employer will know everything about an applicant based on a resume. It is expected that an application and an interview will yield more information about the job seeker, than what is contained on the resume. No confusion about that, at all.
He's got to get to the interview, first.
When he gets there, the interviewer will have the job-seeker's completed application, and complete work history going back x years.
What if one has more experience than fits on half a single sheet of paper? Of course experience will be ommitted.
Someone suggested that a job offer must be placed on the resume; a ridiculous notion that for anyone with any significant length of industry experiencee, would easily be too long to fit on the resume. Of course that doesn't go on a resume. In fact, job offers don't go on job applications, either. They're not trophies, and don't enhance one's value or marketability.
There's no confusion when one provides a complete, detailed work history in a job application. "Omission" from a resum is not a faux pas, given that a job-seeker is not expected to list everything about the job seeker, on the resume, nor is it expected that a potential employer will know everything about an applicant based on a resume. It is expected that an application and an interview will yield more information about the job seeker, than what is contained on the resume. No confusion about that, at all.
I am not sure why you are so insistent in your stance, but your advice is simply wrong. I have conducted thousands of interviews and know the Atlas process intimately. We have seen this situation dozens of times (ommiting a 121 program on ones resume, however brief). IT IS ALWAYS VIEWED AS A RED FLAG AND AN INTENT TO BE DECEPTIVE.
Whether he speaks to Cheryl Cage, Raven Services, etc they will advise him to be upfront and honest in his disclosures. This is a recent and major event in his aviation career and he must be open and honest. When one divulges such events openly and discusses them humbly they often move on with confidence. In this case it is a recent event of magnitude in a fledging career and it would be inadvisable to wait to "discuss it in person".
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
