Sky Dog

AMZ has no interest in running their own airline. They like having multiple vendors they can whipsaw between. That they started their own leasing company to buy and provide the jets to their CMI vendors only means they got tired of paying so much money to ATSG.

Birdsmash

Well there you go! Thats the missing piece (sarcasm emoji) 👍👍

Do you realize DHL has had their own freighters operated by contractors for a long time? Does that mean they will bring everything in-house?

Tango Uniform

So why do they own a 20% stake in ATSG already? Signed a new agreement that they have options for more? Why are they buying their own aircraft? Why are they building airhubs and gateways? UPS did the same many moons ago. Used Airlines, then bought aircraft, then had multiple ACMI's flying those aircraft, then built or bought hubs and gateways, then bought a certificate and brought it all inhouse almost overnight.

Birdsmash

I assume you are new to ACMI?

AMZN has had warrants (not ownership) of all of their partners in the past including Atlas/ATSG/etc. Supposedly, they talked to Connie about flying for them and when the 20% part came up he wisely told them to pound sand. I’m not sure if their partnership with Hawaiian includes warrants? By owning their own aircraft AMZN gains the ability to quickly swap them between contractors and also take the depreciation while spending less per hour than leasing them from a company that expects a profit. Also, buying multiple wide body freighters is expensive. Especially for those companies willing to operate cheaply. But hey, if you want to be a Prime Air pilot, or whatever they will be called, hitch your career to ATSG. They will be bought by AMZN. 🤦‍♂️

zerozero

There's a lot of this lately. I can't believe after 8 years of PrimeAir people are still talking about this.

The best way to predict the future is to look at the past. History clearly shows Amazon has ZERO interest in bringing an already unionized workforce into their operation. The DHL whipsaw model is much more nimble.

Brownose74

lol so many pilots here have amazontitis. Cus Amazon is world renowned in employee satisfaction. These are the same fools chasing airline after airline going after the devils tail airline. So sad.

Birdsmash

Although this does not mean hiring will startup again anytime soon, this will hopefully result in fewer downgrades. Good to see newer 748s being added vs long-in-the-tooth 744s.

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/carr...me-with-atlas/

united20

Is it true that hiring will be resumed pretty soon since atlas is planning to bring more 74s and 77s in?

Was not expecting it to be resumed till next year summer since 767 pilots transition had to be done first but hopefully it is not a rumor.

If it is a rumor, then I am sorry for confusion.

Atlasvet

Here is a non scientific opinion as to what training and hiring will occur over the next several months at Atlas.

We typically have 700-850 (an estimate) training slots at Atlas each year. For the last several years that has meant 5-600 new hires and approx 2-300 transitions or upgrades. At this time there are still new hires in class and the transitions (mostly 767 pilots) has begun in earnest.

There likely will not be any more new hires for several months, until the transitions are largely complete, fleet realignment is understood and attrition reduces the present excess.

Bear in mind that transitioning a qualified Atlas Boeing pilot to another fleet takes less resources then the initial qualification of a new hire.
I believe the current capacity of the training system can easily handle the transitions.

Also understand that is takes a couple of months to recruit, interview and onboard a new hire and 3-4 months to get them fully qualified.

The recent addition of wide body aircraft will reduce the impact of the ceasing of Amazon flying. It takes more crew to staff 74s and 77s then the 73s and domestic 76 flying.

With all this in mind the estimates that we could resume hiring late 2024 or early 2025 seem reasonable.

zerozero

Agreed on all of that.

Plus: Late last week, the VP of Crew Planning emailed a proffer to buy back vacations Q3 2024.

To me, this says we're short handed again.

I believe hiring will resume sooner than later.