Atlas vs United
04-14-2023, 04:42 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 847
Non taken 
United Express is NOT United lol but....it does give an idea of the operations.
I will be playing devil's advocate (troll) and say that you can make more money at Atlas.
Say what?
At United the average pilot can expect (and of course correct me if Im wrong) to sit reserve for years. Thats 4 days on, 3 days off.
I wonder how much open time you can pick up between trips? How long can you expect to stay at 73 hours with reserve?
At Atlas if you want to work you can make good money. Yes you'll be gone a lot but you can make very good money.
During covid-19 we had 4 year first officers making 300k a year.
That was a fluke.
United on the other hand furloughing during Covid? That wasn't a fluke. That was expected. Speaking of expected...United Airlines expects a loss for Q1 (but dont worry itll kick back Q2.)
Again want the glorified bus driver role then go to United. You'll probably make more in the long run (7 years to upgrade on a 737 (yay) according to the website) I guess...but at Atlas if you are willing to work you can make a killing.
United Express is NOT United lol but....it does give an idea of the operations.
I will be playing devil's advocate (troll) and say that you can make more money at Atlas.
Say what?
At United the average pilot can expect (and of course correct me if Im wrong) to sit reserve for years. Thats 4 days on, 3 days off.
I wonder how much open time you can pick up between trips? How long can you expect to stay at 73 hours with reserve?
At Atlas if you want to work you can make good money. Yes you'll be gone a lot but you can make very good money.
During covid-19 we had 4 year first officers making 300k a year.
That was a fluke.
United on the other hand furloughing during Covid? That wasn't a fluke. That was expected. Speaking of expected...United Airlines expects a loss for Q1 (but dont worry itll kick back Q2.)
Again want the glorified bus driver role then go to United. You'll probably make more in the long run (7 years to upgrade on a 737 (yay) according to the website) I guess...but at Atlas if you are willing to work you can make a killing.
04-14-2023, 09:43 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
Posts: 1,559
“No comparison” is accurate when it comes to priorities.
04-15-2023, 01:22 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 108
04-15-2023, 01:39 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 108
I still love flying. I keep some planes that are terrible investments because they separate the job from the work. The work at Atlas and United is similar: fly a mix of wide and narrow bodies to domestic and international locations. Occasionally go someplace unique.
The job isn't comparable at all. United has a retirement and benefits program that blows us out of the water. Free market economics don't apply to United. They have and will continue to be bailed out during bad times, which means a UAL seniority number may see furloughs but isn't going to expire into nothing. The same can't be said for Atlas. Now I like Atlas. I've become senior enough and comfortable enough that I'm probably staying here until the wheels fall off. But let's not pretend we're in the same league for someone who's starting at year 1. True, a pilot hired in 1997 would have eaten it. So did USAir and TWA pilots. I'll wager most of those guys took their recall notices and didn't stay at Atlas.
I feel like our desire to justify our decisions to stay verges on providing skewed gouge to people with real decisions to make. We aren't lesser aviators for being here, and they aren't greater for being there. If you accept this, then we can acknowledge the real differences in jobs and provide a better picture for our brethren.
I like it here. This isn't a bad place to wind up. Still, you wind up here. You go to something that's too big for the government to let die.
The job isn't comparable at all. United has a retirement and benefits program that blows us out of the water. Free market economics don't apply to United. They have and will continue to be bailed out during bad times, which means a UAL seniority number may see furloughs but isn't going to expire into nothing. The same can't be said for Atlas. Now I like Atlas. I've become senior enough and comfortable enough that I'm probably staying here until the wheels fall off. But let's not pretend we're in the same league for someone who's starting at year 1. True, a pilot hired in 1997 would have eaten it. So did USAir and TWA pilots. I'll wager most of those guys took their recall notices and didn't stay at Atlas.
I feel like our desire to justify our decisions to stay verges on providing skewed gouge to people with real decisions to make. We aren't lesser aviators for being here, and they aren't greater for being there. If you accept this, then we can acknowledge the real differences in jobs and provide a better picture for our brethren.
I like it here. This isn't a bad place to wind up. Still, you wind up here. You go to something that's too big for the government to let die.
"Retirement" is really just money in the stock market. It's not yours until you've collected it at whichever age. Until then it's just money that the company has put in the stock market for you. Counting it as income? It should be taken with a grain of salt. 2008 and 2020 were examples of how it can all go away. Fedex pension system however is something different. Looking at cold hard cash in your pocket each month is a better thing to go on in my humblest of opinions.
I might be wrong and I do notice the slight (yeah right) bias in my opinion when I say that Atlas plays a unique role for the government too with its AMC and Freight flying. No one has the 747 freighters that the US military needs and some of the types of charters we do are unique yet necessary for the military (400+ passengers from California to middle of somewhere in Asia for example.) Atlas' positioning has made it very secure in times of uncertainty.
United Airlines...yeah its just another passenger carrying airline (prove me wrong!) The void from its disappearance can be filled by the likes of jetblue, spirit, Delta (very ambitiously so), southwest, alaska, american, and on and on and on.
We have indeed drifted from the original topic and marketing of the companies is not our job (and as Elevation says it is perhaps just simple justification for where we have chosen to hang out hat.)
From a pilot's perspective Elevation is right. You'd just get into a widebody sooner at Atlas and if you live in the middle of nowhere (or overseas...although not lately) you would get a better commuting deal at Atlas. At United you'd eventually get paid more but you'll be doing 4 days on, 3 days off for a while. Captain upgrade in a year? Yeah but probably on reserve for like ten years lol in lovely San Francisco. Atlas you could get 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off but it would be at the low low cost of minimum guarantee of 64 hours (to United's 73 which is better obviously).
With whichever job you'd do quite well and would get to eventually set up a lifestyle to spend time with family.
04-15-2023, 01:41 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 108
It was a fluke...or was it? Know one knows the future sadly.
04-15-2023, 02:36 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: B777 LS
Posts: 142
Thank you Lionhaart,
Very good perspective.
I agree, we are always in the land of uncertainty in terms of economic cycles. For long months now there were forecasts of massive depression in the US, yet nothing as such materialised by now.
Does not mean, it will not happen, yet the global economy seems to be somewhat immune to large variations these days.
Global geopolitical situation is a big question, too, such as China-Taiwan, not to mention Russia-Ukraine conflicts, but basing one's career decisions on war scenarios seems a bit of a paranoic approach to me.
Back to the main issue at hand - I do not mind starting off on reserve for United living in domicile. As I am not permanently settled in any particular place across the US I am quite flexible in where we end up.
Yes, living close to our Family would certainly improve my wife's social life, so either SFO or EWR seem perfectly suited to that.
I want to avoid commuting at all costs though. I have done that enough in my career and find it stressful and tiring in the longer term.
As rightly mentioned by many posters, the bottomline here is I need to get my CJOs first before I get to the point of making choices.
I could be planning on joining United, but they may never call (as many threats suggest with very experienced posters never hearing back from them for some reason).
Once again, thank you all for your feedback, I am well informed by now.
Dom
Very good perspective.
I agree, we are always in the land of uncertainty in terms of economic cycles. For long months now there were forecasts of massive depression in the US, yet nothing as such materialised by now.
Does not mean, it will not happen, yet the global economy seems to be somewhat immune to large variations these days.
Global geopolitical situation is a big question, too, such as China-Taiwan, not to mention Russia-Ukraine conflicts, but basing one's career decisions on war scenarios seems a bit of a paranoic approach to me.
Back to the main issue at hand - I do not mind starting off on reserve for United living in domicile. As I am not permanently settled in any particular place across the US I am quite flexible in where we end up.
Yes, living close to our Family would certainly improve my wife's social life, so either SFO or EWR seem perfectly suited to that.
I want to avoid commuting at all costs though. I have done that enough in my career and find it stressful and tiring in the longer term.
As rightly mentioned by many posters, the bottomline here is I need to get my CJOs first before I get to the point of making choices.
I could be planning on joining United, but they may never call (as many threats suggest with very experienced posters never hearing back from them for some reason).
Once again, thank you all for your feedback, I am well informed by now.
Dom
I second this - the only thing up for discussion are these two points.
"Retirement" is really just money in the stock market. It's not yours until you've collected it at whichever age. Until then it's just money that the company has put in the stock market for you. Counting it as income? It should be taken with a grain of salt. 2008 and 2020 were examples of how it can all go away. Fedex pension system however is something different. Looking at cold hard cash in your pocket each month is a better thing to go on in my humblest of opinions.
I might be wrong and I do notice the slight (yeah right) bias in my opinion when I say that Atlas plays a unique role for the government too with its AMC and Freight flying. No one has the 747 freighters that the US military needs and some of the types of charters we do are unique yet necessary for the military (400+ passengers from California to middle of somewhere in Asia for example.) Atlas' positioning has made it very secure in times of uncertainty.
United Airlines...yeah its just another passenger carrying airline (prove me wrong!) The void from its disappearance can be filled by the likes of jetblue, spirit, Delta (very ambitiously so), southwest, alaska, american, and on and on and on.
We have indeed drifted from the original topic and marketing of the companies is not our job (and as Elevation says it is perhaps just simple justification for where we have chosen to hang out hat.)
From a pilot's perspective Elevation is right. You'd just get into a widebody sooner at Atlas and if you live in the middle of nowhere (or overseas...although not lately) you would get a better commuting deal at Atlas. At United you'd eventually get paid more but you'll be doing 4 days on, 3 days off for a while. Captain upgrade in a year? Yeah but probably on reserve for like ten years lol in lovely San Francisco. Atlas you could get 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off but it would be at the low low cost of minimum guarantee of 64 hours (to United's 73 which is better obviously).
With whichever job you'd do quite well and would get to eventually set up a lifestyle to spend time with family.
"Retirement" is really just money in the stock market. It's not yours until you've collected it at whichever age. Until then it's just money that the company has put in the stock market for you. Counting it as income? It should be taken with a grain of salt. 2008 and 2020 were examples of how it can all go away. Fedex pension system however is something different. Looking at cold hard cash in your pocket each month is a better thing to go on in my humblest of opinions.
I might be wrong and I do notice the slight (yeah right) bias in my opinion when I say that Atlas plays a unique role for the government too with its AMC and Freight flying. No one has the 747 freighters that the US military needs and some of the types of charters we do are unique yet necessary for the military (400+ passengers from California to middle of somewhere in Asia for example.) Atlas' positioning has made it very secure in times of uncertainty.
United Airlines...yeah its just another passenger carrying airline (prove me wrong!) The void from its disappearance can be filled by the likes of jetblue, spirit, Delta (very ambitiously so), southwest, alaska, american, and on and on and on.
We have indeed drifted from the original topic and marketing of the companies is not our job (and as Elevation says it is perhaps just simple justification for where we have chosen to hang out hat.)
From a pilot's perspective Elevation is right. You'd just get into a widebody sooner at Atlas and if you live in the middle of nowhere (or overseas...although not lately) you would get a better commuting deal at Atlas. At United you'd eventually get paid more but you'll be doing 4 days on, 3 days off for a while. Captain upgrade in a year? Yeah but probably on reserve for like ten years lol in lovely San Francisco. Atlas you could get 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off but it would be at the low low cost of minimum guarantee of 64 hours (to United's 73 which is better obviously).
With whichever job you'd do quite well and would get to eventually set up a lifestyle to spend time with family.
04-16-2023, 09:36 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 518
Thank you Lionhaart,
Very good perspective.
I agree, we are always in the land of uncertainty in terms of economic cycles. For long months now there were forecasts of massive depression in the US, yet nothing as such materialised by now.
Does not mean, it will not happen, yet the global economy seems to be somewhat immune to large variations these days.
Global geopolitical situation is a big question, too, such as China-Taiwan, not to mention Russia-Ukraine conflicts, but basing one's career decisions on war scenarios seems a bit of a paranoic approach to me.
Back to the main issue at hand - I do not mind starting off on reserve for United living in domicile. As I am not permanently settled in any particular place across the US I am quite flexible in where we end up.
Yes, living close to our Family would certainly improve my wife's social life, so either SFO or EWR seem perfectly suited to that.
I want to avoid commuting at all costs though. I have done that enough in my career and find it stressful and tiring in the longer term.
As rightly mentioned by many posters, the bottomline here is I need to get my CJOs first before I get to the point of making choices.
I could be planning on joining United, but they may never call (as many threats suggest with very experienced posters never hearing back from them for some reason).
Once again, thank you all for your feedback, I am well informed by now.
Dom
Very good perspective.
I agree, we are always in the land of uncertainty in terms of economic cycles. For long months now there were forecasts of massive depression in the US, yet nothing as such materialised by now.
Does not mean, it will not happen, yet the global economy seems to be somewhat immune to large variations these days.
Global geopolitical situation is a big question, too, such as China-Taiwan, not to mention Russia-Ukraine conflicts, but basing one's career decisions on war scenarios seems a bit of a paranoic approach to me.
Back to the main issue at hand - I do not mind starting off on reserve for United living in domicile. As I am not permanently settled in any particular place across the US I am quite flexible in where we end up.
Yes, living close to our Family would certainly improve my wife's social life, so either SFO or EWR seem perfectly suited to that.
I want to avoid commuting at all costs though. I have done that enough in my career and find it stressful and tiring in the longer term.
As rightly mentioned by many posters, the bottomline here is I need to get my CJOs first before I get to the point of making choices.
I could be planning on joining United, but they may never call (as many threats suggest with very experienced posters never hearing back from them for some reason).
Once again, thank you all for your feedback, I am well informed by now.
Dom
If you're focused on QOL consider also applying to Delta. You would have phenomenal QOL being NYC based at Delta
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