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Old 04-07-2023, 03:48 PM
  #11  
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Thank you all for your comments.
Dom
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Old 04-11-2023, 10:19 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by N4865G
Good day,
Trying to figure out my options moving to the US on Green Card.
10K total time with 2K wide-body command time in the Middle East on the 777.
I have about 10 or 12 years left before retirement and looking to secure a stable flying job with reasonable time off to spend with my Family (for a change, I have been flying like headless chicken for the last 4 years or so).
I am considering wide-body 777 or 787 at United based in SFO or EWR where the better part of my Family is, or Atlas based in CVG (Family in Cincinnati, too)
When comparing the salary it looks like Atlas is lagging behind compared to UA starting Year 2, where United hourly pay increases quite dramatically.
Other aspects matter of course, like 401K, general QOL, type of operations, etc.
I do not mind flying around the world, as I have been doing that for the last decade, but need to find a spot with a good 10 years of salary ahead of me where I do not compromise on my time off.
I am considering UPS too, but commuting to Alaska where all the new hires go these days seems like a struggle in the long term.

Thanks for your comments,
Dom
Atlas isn't even in the same league. UAL hands down.
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Old 04-12-2023, 02:13 AM
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Hey,
I've flown for United Express and Atlas.

The biggest thing is what type of career you want to have. If you want to be a well paid bus driver then fly for United. If you want to be a nicely paid adventurer then fly for Atlas. Do you want to look back at your career and tell your grandkids "gee I made good money" or "gee I saw some fascinating things?"

On practical matters:

Yes money is better at United. But....

At United it's 4 days on and 3 days off with crash pad living (if base isn't home). Atlas it's up to two weeks off in a row each month.

At United it's US passengers who treat flying like its riding a public bus. At Atlas it's US troops or boxes that don't mind delays, turbulence or going back to the gate.

Economy in trouble? Global recession hitting? At United start looking for another job for a couple of years. At Atlas expect open time.

United is a big company feel. Atlas a small company feel.

Going from the hotel to the plane?

At United it's the 30 minute hotel bus, airport entrance, airport security, passenger crowds asking for directions, terminals, wait for the gate agent to let you on the plane, airplane

At Atlas it's private car, private office, airplane.

United? $28 billion in debt. Atlas? $0 in debt.

But yes you get paid more at United and it's a more known brand. You also get to deal with flight attendants too
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Old 04-12-2023, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by J3nkums
Atlas isn't even in the same league. UAL hands down.
Until recession hits they will be the first to furlough, history speaks.
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Old 04-12-2023, 08:34 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Lionhaart
Hey,
I've flown for United Express and Atlas.

The biggest thing is what type of career you want to have. If you want to be a well paid bus driver then fly for United. If you want to be a nicely paid adventurer then fly for Atlas. Do you want to look back at your career and tell your grandkids "gee I made good money" or "gee I saw some fascinating things?"

On practical matters:

Yes money is better at United. But....

At United it's 4 days on and 3 days off with crash pad living (if base isn't home). Atlas it's up to two weeks off in a row each month.

At United it's US passengers who treat flying like its riding a public bus. At Atlas it's US troops or boxes that don't mind delays, turbulence or going back to the gate.

Economy in trouble? Global recession hitting? At United start looking for another job for a couple of years. At Atlas expect open time.

United is a big company feel. Atlas a small company feel.

Going from the hotel to the plane?

At United it's the 30 minute hotel bus, airport entrance, airport security, passenger crowds asking for directions, terminals, wait for the gate agent to let you on the plane, airplane

At Atlas it's private car, private office, airplane.

United? $28 billion in debt. Atlas? $0 in debt.

But yes you get paid more at United and it's a more known brand. You also get to deal with flight attendants too
JD? Is that you?
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Old 04-12-2023, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by CRJJ
JD? Is that you?
He's not wrong.

There's no way of knowing which one is the right choice without a Time Machine. Someone who got hired in 1997 at United at 35 probably wished he went to Atlas in 1997 instead. In 1997 there was no question what the right call was but by 2010 that double furlough'ed pilot would probably have other ideas. By 2023 that same pilot is of course back at United and earning good money but with close to a decade out in the cold where if he had gone to Atlas he would of never missed a paycheck, if even that paycheck was a bit less than United. That's 1/3 of his career up in smoke! Financially there's no recovering unless said pilot landed a dream job during furlough, the career equivalent of winning the lottery.

Now, will a 35 year old getting hired in 2023 have the same deal? No one knows. Atlas may be gone in 10 years, but so could United, or they're so different that it's unrecognizable today. "Pish-posh" you all say but if you look at this industry the only constant is industry turmoil. Don't be so certain the Big Five are too big to fail. What other country has three major flag carriers? Heck just go take a peek at the FedEx forum these days and listen to those guys talk about their gold plated airline.
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Old 04-13-2023, 01:39 AM
  #17  
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Thanks for your comments.
Yes, this industry is usually first hit when the recession creeps in.
I have been in this field for many years and experienced both the great times and serious downturns as well.
I am about to give up well-paid, but no longer commutable wide-body command in the Middle East for relaxed and friendly working environment, stable salary with much less workload, good pension, relative job security, but most of all to see my Family more.
Based on your descriptions both options fit the bill.
Thanks again, really helpful feedback.
Dom

Last edited by N4865G; 04-13-2023 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 04-13-2023, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Lionhaart
Hey,
I've flown for United Express……
Now that’s funny. Yes please do take this person’s expert opinion on United Airlines. Hahaha

You know nothing.
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Old 04-13-2023, 07:50 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Lionhaart
Hey,
I've flown for United Express and Atlas.
You should have stopped after this line…. No offense…

Originally Posted by Lionhaart
The biggest thing is what type of career you want to have. If you want to be a well paid bus driver then fly for United. If you want to be a nicely paid adventurer then fly for Atlas. Do you want to look back at your career and tell your grandkids "gee I made good money" or "gee I saw some fascinating things?"
Yes, there’s some truth to this. However, Ive actually touched more places thus far with United on a international fleet than I have during my time Atlas… There’s also more variety of flying that will be had with United as well…. I’ve had some great trips with Atlas, but don’t act like Atlas is without its routine destinations as well. Yeah, no…

Originally Posted by Lionhaart
On practical matters:

Yes money is better at United. But....

At United it's 4 days on and 3 days off with crash pad living (if base isn't home). Atlas it's up to two weeks off in a row each month.
Yet you have no idea what the bidding structure is for our various fleets here at United…. It’s very doable to achieve a similar schedule to likes of Atlas here at United if one desires. I routinely do 6 on 4 off, 6 on 6 off with reserve here. Same can be easily achieved as a line holder….. Your time at United Express doesn’t give you any insight what can be had with our schedules…

Originally Posted by Lionhaart
At United it's US passengers who treat flying like its riding a public bus. At Atlas it's US troops or boxes that don't mind delays, turbulence or going back to the gate.
This doesn’t bother me one bit….. Even when I was flying boxes, it sucked being bunk during a rough ride….

Originally Posted by Lionhaart
Economy in trouble? Global recession hitting? At United start looking for another job for a couple of years. At Atlas expect open time.
This probably only point that I will agree with you on. There’s risk with every airline. Boxes doesn’t make you immune to job security either…. Atlas has done a good job positing themselves to be a cog in the supply chain. However, companies are redesigning their supply chain to place less reliance on China…, That will cause headwinds for Atlas… Belly freight capacity on WB pax fleets are starting to return. That’s going to cause cargo yields to decrease some…

Originally Posted by Lionhaart
United is a big company feel. Atlas a small company feel.
This is true… Except it really starts to shrink some if you are on a small BES…..

Originally Posted by Lionhaart
Going from the hotel to the plane?

At United it's the 30 minute hotel bus, airport entrance, airport security, passenger crowds asking for directions, terminals, wait for the gate agent to let you on the plane, airplane


At Atlas it's private car, private office, airplane.
Atlas has its share of long van rides as well. Private car service is nice…. We have similar set up on our international layovers also… Even some domestic layovers as well….

Originally Posted by Lionhaart
United? $28 billion in debt. Atlas? $0 in debt.
Atlas is bit more cash rich, we shall see what Apollo does with that cash chest now..

Originally Posted by Lionhaart
But yes you get paid more at United and it's a more known brand. You also get to deal with flight attendants too
One will make more at United. Once United gets a new contact, atlas will be 1.5 contracts behind as the recently arbitrated contract still fell short of contracts of legacy carriers.

But hey, what do I know. I went Regional to Atlas to United….. I enjoyed my time at Atlas, flown with some great folks. Had a blast working there. But, if one has a choice between Atlas and United… It’s a easy choice…
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Old 04-13-2023, 11:13 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by CRJJ
JD? Is that you?
automaton response lol
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