Atlas: The good...
01-31-2023, 10:43 AM
#402
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,633
The union thought it was an improvement and negotiated that in an LOA. It wasn't "taken away". It was a paycut for some 747 FOs but a good increase for all 73 and 76 FOs, because they removed the 1600/month training pay with that LOA.
Last edited by dera; 01-31-2023 at 10:55 AM.
01-31-2023, 10:49 AM
#403
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,633
True, good addition to be very specific. Don’t believe zerozero had any intent to start an argument so good clarification to his main point. Nothing argued regarding the “take away”, but like you said people need to understand that anything and a lot more than you might be aware of can be negotiated away. Just take a glimpse at FedEx 2015 contract and what they keep mentioning on their informational threads, wasn’t pretty it seems.
*On a somewhat parallel theme which may have been answered before awhile back: Why did our start time change to 0700z vs midnight z? Must be benefitting someone out there. Thought it was the newbies being ANC based on the 74 who lived CONUS/lower 48 closer to the East Coast, but several I caught up with answered “not really”…
**Don’t recall the pilot group being asked or a questionnaire proposing this, but I could have missed it somewhere no doubt. LOAs like Elevation mentioned are another animal.
*On a somewhat parallel theme which may have been answered before awhile back: Why did our start time change to 0700z vs midnight z? Must be benefitting someone out there. Thought it was the newbies being ANC based on the 74 who lived CONUS/lower 48 closer to the East Coast, but several I caught up with answered “not really”…
**Don’t recall the pilot group being asked or a questionnaire proposing this, but I could have missed it somewhere no doubt. LOAs like Elevation mentioned are another animal.
re. your second question about the definition in Article 2 about "Day", it was listed as "Agreed" in the JCBA proposal so it wasn't awarded by the arbitrator. I don't know what the logic behind it is.
01-31-2023, 01:03 PM
#404
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 737
Examples for ANC/PDX/ONT/LAX bases:
Old contract: Your first assignment has you duty on at 0100Z on your first work day. In the winter, ANC is UTC -9. That means you would duty on at 1600 local on your OFF DAY. Not cool.
New contract: You duty on at 0700Z (2200 local) and the local day is marked "WORK", not cutting into your X days at all. Much better.
01-31-2023, 02:06 PM
#405
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,583
That wasn’t taken away….. That was negotiated in the LOA that slightly improved retirement…
01-31-2023, 02:33 PM
#406
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,409
This is why it's important to speak up IMO. The only way a lot of our thoughts make it to the brains of people at the important tables is through public discussion, although that whole process gets messy and sometimes ugly. For what it's worth I think most of the LOAs we've received have been a step in the right direction. In an ideal world we'd get referenda or surveys on everything, but that's not practical. So encouraging people to gripe gets information to people who can decide what to listen to and what to ignore.
01-31-2023, 04:20 PM
#407
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,633
The 0700Z start time is to protect those on the west coast from starting excessively early on an X day.
Examples for ANC/PDX/ONT/LAX bases:
Old contract: Your first assignment has you duty on at 0100Z on your first work day. In the winter, ANC is UTC -9. That means you would duty on at 1600 local on your OFF DAY. Not cool.
New contract: You duty on at 0700Z (2200 local) and the local day is marked "WORK", not cutting into your X days at all. Much better.
Examples for ANC/PDX/ONT/LAX bases:
Old contract: Your first assignment has you duty on at 0100Z on your first work day. In the winter, ANC is UTC -9. That means you would duty on at 1600 local on your OFF DAY. Not cool.
New contract: You duty on at 0700Z (2200 local) and the local day is marked "WORK", not cutting into your X days at all. Much better.
01-31-2023, 11:18 PM
#408
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
Posts: 1,581
The 0700Z start time is to protect those on the west coast from starting excessively early on an X day.
Examples for ANC/PDX/ONT/LAX bases:
Old contract: Your first assignment has you duty on at 0100Z on your first work day. In the winter, ANC is UTC -9. That means you would duty on at 1600 local on your OFF DAY. Not cool.
New contract: You duty on at 0700Z (2200 local) and the local day is marked "WORK", not cutting into your X days at all. Much better.
Examples for ANC/PDX/ONT/LAX bases:
Old contract: Your first assignment has you duty on at 0100Z on your first work day. In the winter, ANC is UTC -9. That means you would duty on at 1600 local on your OFF DAY. Not cool.
New contract: You duty on at 0700Z (2200 local) and the local day is marked "WORK", not cutting into your X days at all. Much better.
02-01-2023, 04:41 PM
#409
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 80
It benefits all of our pilots (because we all live in the US, per the contract, *cough*). The reason 07z was chosen was it was a middle-ground of east coast vs Alaska/Hawaiian time zones. Someone in Florida starts a couple hours after midnight, Alaskans start a couple hours before, everyone in the middle it's basically midnight local. Most airlines it's based on midnight in base but that only works for them since bases are silo'ed off from each other, scheduling-wise. Again, Atlas doesn't work the way so one time had to be picked for the whole network. Since Atlas runs on Zulu time and one time had to be picked for everyone thus 07z came to be.
02-02-2023, 03:42 AM
#410
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
Posts: 1,581
It benefits all of our pilots (because we all live in the US, per the contract, *cough*). The reason 07z was chosen was it was a middle-ground of east coast vs Alaska/Hawaiian time zones. Someone in Florida starts a couple hours after midnight, Alaskans start a couple hours before, everyone in the middle it's basically midnight local. Most airlines it's based on midnight in base but that only works for them since bases are silo'ed off from each other, scheduling-wise. Again, Atlas doesn't work the way so one time had to be picked for the whole network. Since Atlas runs on Zulu time and one time had to be picked for everyone thus 07z came to be.
I have been schooled because I’m not gifted. Cheers.
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