Clue32

Hi folks, a couple of questions for the 777 folks. I live south of Frankfurt so Germany trips are of great interest to me. I do understand schedules change and I shouldn't base future decisions solely on past events. But, that very important, "What is your preferred fleet?" question is coming up and I need to have an answer for myself first, before I tell HR.

Are the LEJ layovers typically 24-27 hours waiting on the next days airplane or is there an extra day built in?

Will most bids let you see it once or twice on the lap around the planet, or is it more likely to spend your month flying inter Asia and back and forth across the Pacific?

Do bids ever have folks end their pattern in LEJ or have you ever seen open time starting there?

Thanks!

Roverruckus

You might be better off bidding the 74 or 76 for FRA/HHN layovers all though those are a bit senior on the 76. Leipzig layovers on the 777 can be pretty long though.

Clue32

The commute to CVG is going to be easier than ANC. I figured the 74 could wait until after the initial seat lock and when I had seniority to hold CVG, ORD, or JFK.

The 76 is quite attractive for numerous reasons. Only downside I have found with the 76 through reading the posts here is the lower hours on the bids. When you say the mil charters or HHN outbasing go senior, are we talking 2 to 3 years or 5+?

I really appreciate the input.

Elevation

Usually I'm with a 2nd or 3rd year FO on AMC charters to Europe. Plan on about 2 and a half years to reliably see Germany on the the 767. The 747s do a lot of trips through AMS, HHN, LEJ, RMS, etc. You'll see those locations as a relatively new 747 FO, but the frequency is about once every few months. Again that's variable based on your base, bidding, etc. Europe flying is about a year more senior than normal due to pay incentives (3-4 year FOs). A lot of this will changes with availability of article 33 pay. So if COVID stops carrying a premium the Germany flying will become easier to get. Customer requirements also shape availability of that flying too.

Bottom line, figure about 3 years to reliably get to Germany. You'll probably get it faster, but 3 years is a safe bet.

newerjguy

Our LEJ layovers on the 777 are generally 24-48 hours. CVG (junior base) bid lines with LEJ layovers used to be quite rare, but recently there seems to be more balance between the LAX and CVG bid lines. The MIA base just opened this month and 4/13 FO bid lines have a LEJ layover, but MIA went senior and will probably stay that way.

Overall though, there are far more patterns that have you bouncing back and forth to Asia as you alluded too. Clean eastbound laps around the planet that transit LEJ are the minority and tend to go senior.

I've never seen a pattern end in LEJ, but currently there is a ton of open time that has you DH out to LEJ to start the trip. I believe this is due to Germany's current vaccine mandates and the number of pilots we have who have not received the vaccine, so as their patterns are adjusted to drop the legs through LEJ those pop up in open time. I would not count on that continuing as a long-term status quo however.

I'm not too familiar with international commuting techniques, but if you get the 777 or 76 I think your best bet would be to fly out of FRA to get to CVG for work. Have JFK as your gateway airport and buy ZED fares to get there, then the company will get you a ticket to CVG. You could also jumpseat on a 747 (maybe a 76?) to get stateside and then request "alternate travel" gateway from whatever airport you landed at to get to CVG. Car/train to LEJ to catch a plane...probably not nearly as efficient.

Hope that helps a little!

dera

Junior MIA 777 guys are still in initial NH training. It didn't go senior at all, it went very junior.

newerjguy

Well I stand corrected then! I did not realize NH's were being awarded MIA.

So for the question regarding commuting from Germany....probably even easier to get to MIA than CVG once stateside from whichever gateway airport.

Clue32

Thank you all for your replies. They are helping tremendously. If my interview was today I'd ask for the 777, we'll see if that holds up. I have 10 days to flip-flop. I also appreciate the recommendations on the commute. FRA is a 1 hour train ride, HHN is 2 hours by car, and LEJ is 5 hours by car or three trains away. I absolutely will give myself a buffer to not miss gateway travel. Small price to pay in the commute to put these 63 to 70 day contract rotations behind me.

Elevation

That really amazed me.

CRJJ

Yeah same here. I'm sure it won't stay junior for too long tho