Atlas pilots to get arbitrated contract.

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09-01-2019, 03:54 PM

#81

b707guy

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Position: B-757/767 Left Right Left, aww, who can keep up...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4runner

Why is Omni in there? They don’t have any freighters anymore.

Good question. That's an awful lot of belly freight, if that's what it is, compared with ABX or ATI.

09-01-2019, 05:13 PM

#82

CardboardCutout

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Quote:

Originally Posted by b707guy

Good question. That's an awful lot of belly freight, if that's what it is, compared with ABX or ATI.

AFAICT, most if not all of our belly freight is connected to the passengers. They're usually wearing boots, so it's usually stuff associated with the DOD. I would hazard a guess that's most often stuff associated with whatever unit is on board, although I have no way to be sure. Whatever the case, I don't think we're moving a lot of commercial "what plane can we put this on" freight.

09-01-2019, 08:27 PM

#83

SoFloFlyer

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Can anyone inform me as to how the arbitrators are siding with the company when they should side with the pilot group? I just don’t understand how the pilot group is consistently getting ****** as every turn?

09-01-2019, 10:31 PM

#84

Elevation

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusoe

According to the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics - covering US Air Carriers - 2018 - RTMs (Revenue Ton Miles - in millions):

-Fedex: 12,067
..........................................
-Atlas Air: 5,577
-Polar: 2,702
-Southern: 1,008
-AAWW combined = 9,288
..........................................
-UPS: 8,561
-K4: 2,626
-ABX: 540
-Western Global: 523
-ATI: 505
-Omni: 188
-(ATSG combined = 1,235)
-National: 95

Below are from the same source - numbers for 2019 - latest currently available data is through May, 2019 - RTMFreight (the above numbers encompassed all Revenue vs these below are freight only numbers. As Atlas flies pax also...although not enough to change rankings without, Omni was included above as part of ATSG for relative reference):

-FDX: 4,959
.................................
-Atlas: 2,265
-Polar: 1,115
-Southern: 503
-AAWW combined: 3,883
..................................
-UPS: 3,328

--------------------------------

From an AAWW earnings call slideshow from late 2018:

The company listed Atlas Air in 3rd place world-wide behind FedEx & Emirates in FTKs.

Thanks for this!

09-01-2019, 10:58 PM

#85

Crusoe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by b707guy

Good question. That's an awful lot of belly freight, if that's what it is, compared with ABX or ATI.

That’s not simply belly freight. If you read the accompanying notes - it stated that the top listings were for RTMs (revenue ton miles) - this encompasses ALL revenue - both freight & passengers. I included that because of the fact that Atlas flies passengers in addition to freight which gives a somewhat more accurate reflection of the total size of the operation. I did note that overall it is not a large enough difference to change any rankings even if you’re just concentrating on cargo operations. The notes also mentioned that Omni was simply included if anyone was curious about the total operational RTMs of ATSG as a group (partially just as a relative measurement since AAWW pax ops were also included).

The lower set of figures (looking at just FDX, AAWW & UPS) on the other hand are (as stated in the note) RTMFreight (revenue ton miles - freight only). Included for those that were curious about strictly the cargo side of things.

09-02-2019, 05:01 AM

#86

b707guy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusoe

this encompasses ALL revenue - both freight & passengers. I included that because of the fact that Atlas flies passengers in addition to freight which gives a somewhat more accurate reflection of the total size of the operation.

Thanks for clarifying. Surprisingly high numbers for AAWW vs UPS!

09-02-2019, 05:50 AM

#87

742Dash

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer

Because this process is controlled by the NMB, and the NMB is made up of political appointees.

And for all the whining in cockpits, crew rooms and on the Internet at the end of the day most pilots do not vote "pro-labor". And both political parties know that.

One party wants to tilt the advantage to employers, the other wants to keep the airplanes moving so the general population is happy. There is no reason for either one to do what pilots want -- at least not until what we want translates into votes.

09-02-2019, 08:20 AM

#88

Turbine1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer

How? Because this is an aircraft leasing company run by lawyers. As lawyers they know the inner workings of the court and arbitration system and know how to get what they want. What they want is to get the most profit out of these airframes for the least cost to them. Our revenue per employee is $0.89, UPS and FDX $0.13. Pilots are 88% of the employees at AAWH. The big disparity is because Atlas keeps their pilot group compensated at 60% or more less than the rest of the industry, while our execs are paid on par or more than the execs of the big three carriers in America. The latest arbitration win will ensure mgt keeps that status quo for the next 15 years.

Until pilots thinking about joining Atlas/Southern look in the mirror and realize they are worth far more for their skills than being paid at part 135 levels for flying widebodys to over 400 destinations worldwide for 20 days a month nothing will ever change at Atlas. Unfortunately good pilots keep showing up to class with their eyes shut. When our COO and head lawyer takes over as CEO next January and he gets our scope before the arbitrator they will quickly find themselves on the street along with many of us currently here.

Last edited by Turbine1; 09-02-2019 at 08:33 AM.

09-02-2019, 08:41 AM

#89

742Dash

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbine1

...Our revenue per employee is $0.89, UPS and FDX $0.13. Pilots are 88% of the employees at AAWH...

Much of Atlas's workforce is contract employees. The idea that you can run an entire airline with the remaining 12% shows that.

Flight attendants, most maintenance, loading crews and so forth are employees at normal companies but are contractors at Atlas and thus are not counted in this statistic. My personal opinion is that this is an example of the abuse of contracting in modern America, but my opinion does not matter.

We will get eaten alive if we try to argue this in front of an arbitrator.

09-02-2019, 09:36 AM

#90

dynap09

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Quick question - why don't the teamsters present a list? How can you bargain as a united union without a list? Aren't all the carriers represented by the same union? So this shouldn't need anyone but the union to figure things out?

There's lots of complaining about lots of things - but this is entirely within the unions control.

I scanned the case / ruling. The language seems pretty clear - if company notifies union of intent to integrate seniority lists then the Union needs to get on with the job.

I do have a question - if the union doesn't drag this out forever (company may be happy too as well) when can Section 6 negotiations begin? Why not just merge lists and then negotiate as a united pilot group? Anytime the company can play one group off against the other it's just going to slow things down.

By dragging this out for years it seems that the company can just buy a new airline every few years and delay things forever? The southern pay is terrible BTW it looks like.