Fillmore Slim

I know some of you know this, but it's worth saying again. So way back in 2011, the previous union administration allowed language into our current contract that said, and I'm paraphrasing here:

"The company, at any time, can buy a bankrupt airline and merge our crappy contract together with theirs, to intentionally suppress any gains in pay and quality of life for our pilots." This WILL happen for EVERY contract negotiation for the rest of our careers, unless that specific language is removed by the arbitrator, which will never happen. Life here for the line pilot will never change, unless (fill in the blank).

~Slim

Birdsmash

Southern was not bankrupt when purchased. In fact it was profitable to the point I’d be surprised if earnings on the Southern side have not paid off at least 50% of the purchase price after only 4 years. Aside from the CBA “almagamation” issues, the SAI purchase was a wise move by the AAWW board.

C5Drvr

Anyone know the upcoming class dates in each of the fleets through the end of the year?

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Fillmore Slim

Ah yes, they were not bankrupt. Thanks for the correction. Conversely, Atlas will never purchase a carrier whose pilots have a better CBA than ours, as they will then, in turn, have to pay us more and / or upgrade or work rules. It was a wise move indeed. The suits continue to make many exemplary business decisions. When we report earnings again it will likely be one of the most profitable quarters in the companies history. It sure would be nice of them to allow us to share in the success and treat us as a collective group of assets as opposed to liabilities. The fact remains. As long as the language regarding mergers / acquisitions stays, so will our compensation and work rules. To use an aircraft analogy, we've reached our service ceiling.

RyeMex

767:
October 26
November 16

747:
October 12
November 2

I’m unsure about the 777/737 (southern) side of the house, but I suspect that it’s similar.

C5Drvr

Thanks, Rye.

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Elevation

It's fair to disagree.

What I take issue with is we don't know what's in the table. You mention a contract comparison. We only saw a contract comparison; not a proposal.

We're being asked again to trust our leadership. The problem is our trust has been compromised several times over.

And why is our trust in our leadership necessary now? Why now, specifically? Why is our opinion important all of a sudden when negotiations and arbitration are opaque? We announced a new local with zero input from our membership, but somehow we're suddenly crucial?

We're being played again. I'm not sure what the angle is, but this doesn't add up.

scrupulous

To be clear, that union administration did attempt to get the polar scope that was better. The arbiter awarded the Atlas version in that merger in which 3 or 4 contract sections were decided by him verse our currently open @16 open sections now the next arbiter will probably decide on looking at the current events and timeline. Bet that will bite us.

What do you expect from our current trustee that had to go thru two full blown strikes just to reach parity with what the Atlas union was able to get prior to merger. He admitted that we were at parity on a web conference council call and it is obvious it took them two full strikes vs our one roll up to strike. Their technique is flawed. Hey, it's the best money they ever made though.

We really need to start paying attention and quit allowing the gas lighting from the company and union side. I suggest electing new leadership judging from there historic actions. Maybe start with those BK flushed out for his current yes men from that last time he actually got elected on.

maxjet

I have been watching this for a long time and can see your frustration. You don’t need to change your leadership regarding negotiations as long as they are willing to do 2 things.

1. They hire a third party to do the negotiating. You will get what you pay for by going that way, so be prepared for an assessment. Your negotiators are up against some of the best in the industry on the company side.

2. You need to have enforceable solidarity in your ranks. Somebody comes on here like you, cracking the varnish? Shun them on the line and in the sim. No, you do not have the right of transparency. You do not have the right to direct negotiations. You agreed to this when you signed up at a closed shop. Suck it up and keep your mouth shut. Stop doing favors for the company. Stop flying outside the contract. Stop flying broken aircraft.

If your union leaders won’t agree to the above perhaps it is time for them to go. Want an template of how it is done? Look at UPS.

zerozero

Sometimes I think you take things a little too personally. Sort of like you're watching the evening news and you think Donald Trump is talking specifically to you.

You should try to take a few steps back and look at the bigger picture. For example, whatever sense of urgency you're feeling about how important "our opinions are...all of a sudden..." is largely just your subjective perception.

But here you are on a public web board attempting to plant seeds of doubt in the union leadership. I think you should take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself why are you behaving this way? What sort of selfish satisfaction do you gain by sowing doubt and corroding solidarity.

Yes, please, do have a look at how UPS crews demonstrate their solidarity.