Advice to American applicants...
10-12-2016, 12:32 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 255
I am not really a doom and gloom kind of guy, however, with the amount of hiring going on, I would put American a distant 5th on your list of major airlines you want to work for (the top 3 pax and Fedex/UPS). The QoL in this contract is laughable. US Airways (especially the West) language blows the doors off of this PoS that APA hoisted on 15,000 SoBs. I am not saying that as a disgruntled Airways guy trying to put a dig in at the American guys, just about every American pilot I've come in cantact with has been great, I'm saying that as a relatively junior guy that is now experiencing the full brunt of this contract we voted in. I've experienced the differences first hand, and say what you want about the sh!tty reputation that Airways had, it was, however, vastly superior compared to the American way of life, and that is embarrassing. I can't believe the 9000+ American guys put up with this crap. On long call reserve you will be utilized beyond what your schedule ever shows. Short call reserve? That's an in base deal, period. That can be decent, if sitting around a crash pad is what you consider decent. Long call reserve, something any new hire commuter dreams of, is worse than in-base short call. Your off days are not your off days, they are moved regularly and back to back trips are not uncommon. Long Call guys have their off days moved before short call guys are even called. AYFKM? Pack for 4 and gone for 6! Have a line and want to move a trip? Get used to Red/Redder, that's the mantra! Fly what you bid folks, and with PBS, unless you're in the top 30, expect the fun to continue!
The nickel and dime antics of Doug are well documented. Nearly every single regional airline has superior contract reserve language compared to what American has. Don't expect the union to share your pain, 'Don't worry son, you'll be senior one day' isn't really a joke here, it's SOP. Only the real joke is on the senior guys that actually think they're special. Sure, come here and get a seniority number but if Delta or United calls in the first year or two, pack your bags and hit the road!
I'm posting this not to get a load off my chest, I'm still thankful I have this job and I generally come to work and do my thing without making any waves, I'm posting this because you need to know what you're getting in to. Sure, Delta is on top, and that can all change, but that fact of the matter is we're on the bottom now and the leadership at APA isn't going to bat for the members and certainly not the contract, Doug is steamrolling them. The implementation of our contract only falls under the 'what saves the company money now' column. Our contract still has 3.5 years left and we've given up any bargaining power. The next contract will cost dearly to get some of the QoL issues back and that will still leave us a distant 5th! So ah, ok, good luck!
The nickel and dime antics of Doug are well documented. Nearly every single regional airline has superior contract reserve language compared to what American has. Don't expect the union to share your pain, 'Don't worry son, you'll be senior one day' isn't really a joke here, it's SOP. Only the real joke is on the senior guys that actually think they're special. Sure, come here and get a seniority number but if Delta or United calls in the first year or two, pack your bags and hit the road!
I'm posting this not to get a load off my chest, I'm still thankful I have this job and I generally come to work and do my thing without making any waves, I'm posting this because you need to know what you're getting in to. Sure, Delta is on top, and that can all change, but that fact of the matter is we're on the bottom now and the leadership at APA isn't going to bat for the members and certainly not the contract, Doug is steamrolling them. The implementation of our contract only falls under the 'what saves the company money now' column. Our contract still has 3.5 years left and we've given up any bargaining power. The next contract will cost dearly to get some of the QoL issues back and that will still leave us a distant 5th! So ah, ok, good luck!
10-12-2016, 02:03 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 398
Not going to argue the OP
OTOH, Reserve is usually pretty tolerable if you live in base, and even really junior lineholders can improve their schedules, and do. No, you can not trade that four day weekend trip for a two day Tuesday.
And on another hand, the others have been hiring hundreds of new pilots every month for the last three or so years. Mostly at the younger end of the range. AA has been recalling and flowing guys in their forties and fifties. The attrition boom is just about to get rolling, and that demographic will stretch it far into the future.
Where will you be when the music stops, behind several thousand guys with 25-30 years left to go, or behind several thousand guys with 10-15 years left?
OTOH, Reserve is usually pretty tolerable if you live in base, and even really junior lineholders can improve their schedules, and do. No, you can not trade that four day weekend trip for a two day Tuesday.
And on another hand, the others have been hiring hundreds of new pilots every month for the last three or so years. Mostly at the younger end of the range. AA has been recalling and flowing guys in their forties and fifties. The attrition boom is just about to get rolling, and that demographic will stretch it far into the future.
Where will you be when the music stops, behind several thousand guys with 25-30 years left to go, or behind several thousand guys with 10-15 years left?
10-12-2016, 02:07 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,549
My observation is that the main difference between AA and my previous Regional is pay and the 401(k). The overall QOL is about the same. However, what I've noticed is that the AA contract generally has more ironclad language concerning what may and may not be done, while the Regional contract was full of soft language that could and would be interpreted any way the company chose - to their advantage.
10-12-2016, 02:23 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 713
Yes we have A LOT of work to do. Please get involved - at the very least have you and your classmates/squadron buddies/crashpad buddies send sound offs with what you want to see in the next contract. Go to base meetings (DFW this Friday!!!) and politely ask what the plan is for the next contract. Email the negotiating committee members (remember, 95% are hard working and care as much as you). Let them know they aren't alone and they have your support as members.
For better or worse, we are APA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For better or worse, we are APA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
10-12-2016, 04:27 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 403
I hope you are being sarcastic. American pilots have always, ALWAYS, had the worst work rules, and thus the worst reserve rules, of any pilot group. Even when other work groups were in BK, APA managed to still accepted the worst work rules
APA and it's devoted members have been nothing but lipstick on a "dirty" pig for decades. The mighty never fell, they were too busy checking their pay and seniority number to ever care about QOL and getting up.
This is the worst contract of any airline, regional or major, today. With money being made by AAG....it makes it even worse to stomach. APA.....should be the acronym YBSSS (You'll Be Senior Someday Son). By far the biggest joke of a "union" in aviation history. The best part....they think they are the best. Ignorance is bliss....enough your apple sauce
APA and it's devoted members have been nothing but lipstick on a "dirty" pig for decades. The mighty never fell, they were too busy checking their pay and seniority number to ever care about QOL and getting up.
This is the worst contract of any airline, regional or major, today. With money being made by AAG....it makes it even worse to stomach. APA.....should be the acronym YBSSS (You'll Be Senior Someday Son). By far the biggest joke of a "union" in aviation history. The best part....they think they are the best. Ignorance is bliss....enough your apple sauce
10-12-2016, 04:45 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,316
OP,
Please elaborate on the moving of days off. How did they notify you? How much notice? I assume they can only notify you via telephone and as such on your days on call. LAA guys make it sound like this is rare. Maybe not?...
I'm bidding long call reserve in Nov specifically to get weekends off. If they are just going to take away those days, I'd rather have a line. I literally have plans every weekend in Nov, won't be too happy if they take my days off away. Will likely not be feeling well enough to fly I'd guess...
Please elaborate on the moving of days off. How did they notify you? How much notice? I assume they can only notify you via telephone and as such on your days on call. LAA guys make it sound like this is rare. Maybe not?...
I'm bidding long call reserve in Nov specifically to get weekends off. If they are just going to take away those days, I'd rather have a line. I literally have plans every weekend in Nov, won't be too happy if they take my days off away. Will likely not be feeling well enough to fly I'd guess...
10-12-2016, 04:54 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: A-320
Posts: 1,122
OP,
Please elaborate on the moving of days off. How did they notify you? How much notice? I assume they can only notify you via telephone and as such on your days on call. LAA guys make it sound like this is rare. Maybe not?...
I'm bidding long call reserve in Nov specifically to get weekends off. If they are just going to take away those days, I'd rather have a line. I literally have plans every weekend in Nov, won't be too happy if they take my days off away. Will likely not be feeling well enough to fly I'd guess...
Please elaborate on the moving of days off. How did they notify you? How much notice? I assume they can only notify you via telephone and as such on your days on call. LAA guys make it sound like this is rare. Maybe not?...
I'm bidding long call reserve in Nov specifically to get weekends off. If they are just going to take away those days, I'd rather have a line. I literally have plans every weekend in Nov, won't be too happy if they take my days off away. Will likely not be feeling well enough to fly I'd guess...
10-12-2016, 04:56 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: A-320
Posts: 1,122
OP was dead on. The only parts of the contract that are better at AA than the regional I came from are pay, 401k, and commuter policy. We also have a duty rig that my regional didn't but they had a min calendar day and we don't.
10-12-2016, 05:05 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,316
We had the same thing at LUS. OFF days were moveable and could be flown into. INV days were untouchable. The thing is they almost never (actually never in my case) moved them or flew you into them.
Just not sure how much this actually will happen now. LAA guys please pipe up with stats.
Just not sure how much this actually will happen now. LAA guys please pipe up with stats.
10-12-2016, 05:36 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,549
In 3 full years here - all but 6 months on Reserve - I have NEVER had a Moveable day actually moved. Never. Yes, I've occasionally flown into a day off, but have always gotten it back, appended to the back end of the scheduled off days.
We have 13 days off on our Reserve lines in my base. Each Reserve line has 2 Moveable days off.
We have 13 days off on our Reserve lines in my base. Each Reserve line has 2 Moveable days off.
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