Originally Posted by Route66

You NEVER "told me" that if I "just spills it on here". Go back and look at the posts. You NEVER told me to spill it. I just know from your infantile actions like EF quitting the BOD and the west "sick out" that you DO inherently know (like I do) that the "gist" of the SLI was that the APA/AWA committees are asking for something more and the extension to the 27th was at THEIR request.

You West mouth pieces are full of it but like you DID say and admit.....you WILL be suing and that is typical. So if these THREE ARBITRATORS agree with US then where is the integrity of M/B process? Where is the integrity of the process itself? Who got it wrong: Nicolau or THREE OTHER NEUTRAL ARBITRATORS?

WEST HYPOCRITE LOGIC.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

IF and that's IF it's true the West plans post award legal action or attempts it which you insinuate (based on posts of others yet), it might only be based on the fact the Nic wasn't used and any other assumption of East victory outside of that would seem to be baseless. The arbs may very well have compensated for that by other methodologies in placement and order of pilots, at least in relation to pre-merger East/West.

Originally Posted by Route66

From what I have read over on the OTHER forum and from sources on BOTH sides of the fence what I have understood is what someone over on airlineforum posted. I, like you and the others, have not seen "the list". I know the West/LAA are not happy about it. I have NO knowledge of what exactly what the Arbitrators released in the Draft SL. But piecing the puzzle together I do NOT agree that they used ANY relation to pre-merger East/West. In short, if its three lists, its three lists. And that is the conclusion that the many sources I have heard from have deduced. I have HEARD that Eric and Mitch are in very bad moods and that in of itself is a victory.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

The absence of the Nic alone would produce the West unhappiness you describe. As for LAA angst, that could mean any number of things. The East list is a fragmented list anyway with two subgroups of pilots (Nic and 3rd listers) with different issues in relation to other groups pilots. I still think it premature to believe the East prevailed in a grand slam against both West and LAA, especially across the entire seniority spectrum.

I can understand the claim of the West being unhappy being the primary litmus there is Nic/No Nic, but since you say LAA is unhappy, what specifically are they unhappy about ?

If that (or other claims) are to carry any degree of consideration, some type of specifics must be there to quantify that position, otherwise it may just be a series of assumptions playing off each other.

Originally Posted by Route66

You NEVER "told me" that if I "just spills it on here". Go back and look at the posts. You NEVER told me to spill it. I just know from your infantile actions like EF quitting the BOD and the west "sick out" that you DO inherently know (like I do) that the "gist" of the SLI was that the APA/AWA committees are asking for something more and the extension to the 27th was at THEIR request.

You West mouth pieces are full of it but like you DID say and admit.....you WILL be suing and that is typical. So if these THREE ARBITRATORS agree with US then where is the integrity of M/B process? Where is the integrity of the process itself? Who got it wrong: Nicolau or THREE OTHER NEUTRAL ARBITRATORS?

WEST HYPOCRITE LOGIC.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Route66
Then unionism is finished, because DOH/LOS is the ONLY way to measure the value of an employee. Historically, (over the past 75 years) merger policy between pilot groups has NOT been a very effective instrument in determining our respective value for many reasons which I have NO interest in delving into here (mainly because we have too much animus between us and web boards simply interfere too much with interpersonal relations) but suffice to say our unity now will be much what it will be in 2020....TOAST.

How will affect me? I can't tell you until the END of my career suffice to say that Im certainly MORE happy the current arbitrators are trying to save their own face and their own futures by realizing that all Pilot lives (like black lives) have SOME value with THEIR longevity.

Have a blessed day!!!

I would be quick to agree if there were two like groups merging into one. The dynamic was such that the two sides were so very lopsided that DOH only benefited the east to an extreme degree. It is for that reason that DOH was not used. To do so would be to essentially staple 90% of one carrier whereby destroying career expectations of that same 90%.
Unity at American I will agree with you it's done. There is too much damage done to too many people all of whom now will pull in different directions. Glad I will miss it all.

I have no idea what the panel has done but clearly you do and there are many here that would pay to know what you have been told to be gospel regarding the confidential results. I say tell it all now and this will force the hand of those that are keeping it confidential to come out with a hotline that much sooner. Based on what you've said so far is that the only group to prevail in this has been LUS east. I have to assume that LUS west and AA have all been stapled behind the east and 3rd list guys and gals. That will certainly produce an undesired action that will put everyone back in a courtroom. Pandora's box had a lid on it for a reason and it read do not open.

WD

This is the problem with people that don't read, they are often quick to accuse without knowing why and it makes them look rather foolish. Yes I did tell you that.

WD

Originally Posted by Route66

Your term of "Grand Slam" would not be how I got the impression of it. However, in the bits and pieces I have gotten, the COMPLETE DRAFT including the opinion was released to the parties with a time span for comments terminating on the 27th of July (next Wednesday). This time was extended at the request of the West/LAA. The West AND the LAA both argued to use the Nic. It was not used. LAA could very well be unhappy about that alone because its use would have advantaged their argument greatly. You'll disagree, I know, but that WAS their purpose by incorporating it into their argument.

Originally Posted by Route66

We will have to wait for the draft to be released as its final form which I would anticipate to be the first week of August (opinion on my part) but if the arguments the LAA/AWA committees will probably make along with WD here asserting they'll sue (threats to ARBITRATORS) I'm sure their emotional response to the ARBITRATORS (plural used here as opted to Nicolau) will be to no avail. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Route66
Then unionism is finished, because DOH/LOS is the ONLY way to measure the value of an employee. Historically, (over the past 75 years) merger policy between pilot groups has NOT been a very effective instrument in determining our respective value for many reasons which I have NO interest in delving into here (mainly because we have too much animus between us and web boards simply interfere too much with interpersonal relations) but suffice to say our unity now will be much what it will be in 2020....TOAST.

How will affect me? I can't tell you until the END of my career suffice to say that Im certainly MORE happy the current arbitrators are trying to save their own face and their own futures by realizing that all Pilot lives (like black lives) have SOME value with THEIR longevity.

Have a blessed day!!!

I would be quick to agree if there were two like groups merging into one. The dynamic was such that the two sides were so very lopsided that DOH only benefited the east to an extreme degree. It is for that reason that DOH was not used. To do so would be to essentially staple 90% of one carrier whereby destroying career expectations of that same 90%.
Unity at American I will agree with you it's done. There is too much damage done to too many people all of whom now will pull in different directions. Glad I will miss it all.

I have no idea what the panel has done but clearly you do and there are many here that would pay to know what you have been told to be gospel regarding the confidential results. I say tell it all now and this will force the hand of those that are keeping it confidential to come out with a hotline that much sooner. Based on what you've said so far is that the only group to prevail in this has been LUS east. I have to assume that LUS west and AA have all been stapled behind the east and 3rd list guys and gals. That will certainly produce an undesired action that will put everyone back in a courtroom. Pandora's box had a lid on it for a reason and it read do not open.

WD

This is the problem with people that don't read, they are often quick to accuse without knowing why and it makes them look rather foolish. Yes I did tell you that.

WD