R57 relay

So you don't KNOW anything, but you make definitive statements like "Nothing new here- but it is entertaining watching them set themselves up for a major dose of reality coming their way"

Koontz was on C&R making statements just like that, no lie.

PurpleTurtle

At least you are level headed and objective.

SilverandSore

I wish Hillary Clinton was helping out in this SLI, we'd have seen the results a month ago, or at least the rest of the world would have seen it by now.

PurpleTurtle

LOS adjustment benefits the list with least furlough time.

We'll see.

Fair, equitable, implemented. Believe it.

R57 relay

This is what the co-founder of AOL put on C&R:

"You guys on the East really need to stop with the delusion. It didn't fly in the federal courts and it sure won't fly before the SLI panel. Both the AAPSIC and West committees embraced the Nic for a reason - the same reason."

That sounds pretty definitive to me. Not "I think" or "history shows", no he wrote "delusion" and it "sure won't fly". Of course his brother came on later and backtracked for him.

Now, what did I lie about?

DCA A321 FO

Congratulations! You are #1

Publicly demonstrating the loss of one's mind.

It's their proposal btw

GrapeNuts

No problem! Auto correct on an iphone. But that's the best you can do, isn't it? LOL

Enjoy your view from your second arbitration!

Upsddown

Not sure if you actually had a little bird talk to you or not, but your very specific on the possible proposal. I might add, I think your post "could be" accurate. It would make sense if you really look at it.

We are all flailing around trying to figure out what it might be. As said before the individuals in the know have remained amazingly quiet. However, it's human nature to want to tell someone if you have a secret. There are those that know outside the circle. But who? Reading this thread there was one poster early on that did a very good job of predicting the next announcement - DarinFred. But after making some very bold statements early on he disappeared. Why?

As to the proposals we can all guess and all criticize why they did what they did. I personally think each group served their constituents well.

The East backed off DOH but placed a very good argument in front of the arbs on why not to use the NIC. The rest of their proposal, and they knew it, was a reach. But if in their argument they only succeeded in killing the NIC that would be a major victory. Everything after that would be icing on the cake because their placement on the combined list in any respect will end up better against the West group than if the NIC had been used.


The West stuck to the use of the NIC. As they should. But its use presented a very tough dilemma in front of the arbs given the parameters set forth by MB.

Disregarding the battle between the West and East it was hard to contemplate how a West pilot who never had access to LWB (except for a brief stint of 747 flying) would be placed in front of a LAA pilot that was hired before them. Yes I understand the DOH argument but I also understand as of December 2013 the West group had no access to LWB flying, Europe flying, Asia flying, etc. It would seem the arbs providing access to LWB alone would be a victory for the West group. How could the arbs rationalize doing it at the expense of the LAA group by then putting those pilots with less LOS senior to the LAA pilots with more LOS? Seemed a tough hill, but who knows this is an arbitration. Maybe that's the LOS adjustment you posted above.

The "superior" LAA group argument. When they first proposed the NIC I thought they had thrown their group under the bus. But in hindsight it "may" have been a very good strategy. By using the NIC as their basis for an integration they were able to completely argue the good and bad points of the NIC. It many respects their arguments demonstrated why using the NIC amongst the three groups couldn't work.

On the other hand if the arbs were going to be inclined to use the NIC then they had hedged their case of how it should be adjusted to not negatively impact the LAA group. If they had not used the NIC they would never had been able to so thoroughly vet the use of the NIC during the arbitration.

So was their strategy all along to want to use the NIC or to help the East try to kill the use of the NIC?

Did anyone else find it interesting that near the end of the arbitration the arbs asked a question on how a particular adjustment to the integrated list would effect the ordering of the list and the LAA witness said if he could have a 15 minute break he would tell them? After returning from break the witness told the arbs the answer to their question. The arbs immediately asked how did you do that so quick? The witness said, oh, (paraphrase) we developed a program that can tell you anything. The arbs asked for everything it adjusted for. LOS? Yes. DOH? Yes. LWB flying? Yes. On and on they asked and the witness responded yes to everything.

Was it just a coincidence the LAA group had quietly developed a program that could manipulate the entire integrated list particularly if the NIC wasn't used? It's especially interesting given that it could easily be used by the arbs to help them construct the list? Arbs like simplification.

Did anyone else notice the arbs called the SLI committees together to help them for a couple of weeks in May? Was it to plug and play with the LAA program?

My point is this. Everyone keeps bashing their opposing parties committees. I personally think each committee did very well in their arguments. In the end no group will be completely happy. Obviously, depending on the use or lack of use of the NIC the East or West group will likely go nuclear to some degree.

The consistent theme amongst all rumors is the NIC was not used. If true we won't know for sure until August. There will be LWB fences between LAA and LUS groups (who knows how between East and West).

As to the rest, I've heard everything from what DarinFred posted to what PurpleTurtle posted. And everything in between. Trying to be pragmatic about this I can see PurpleTurtle's little bird as having the closest solution to adhering to the requirement's of the MB that I've heard so far.

R57 relay

Grapenuts-what did I lie about? That's a big accusation.

R57 relay

The no Nic rumors are expanding. I've even heard it from a west guy. I won't believe it until I see it.