SO - Where's the SLI?
08-22-2016, 06:06 PM
#1581
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: B737
Posts: 1,204
Secondly, not all of us will spend eons in a 777, etc. Lots of third- and fourth-listers came over later in life. I myself am 43 and I'm technically a 4th lister. I doubt I'll spend a lot of time in any wide body, and that's ok. I'll likely have the opportunity to sit left seat in a Group IV for several years before retirement, assuming WWIII doesn't happen, etc.
Some guys did get hired on at a young age but most of them are 4th listers and were never really US Airways new hires. The guys and gals you speak of (3rd listers involved in the SLI) are not 25 year old wide-eyed newbies that will be 777 captains for 15 years.
08-22-2016, 06:36 PM
#1582
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
I see these forums as a means to help to learn, to educate and to share information. Not as some avenue to club one another.
My "extensive" posts on the draft was in response to Vendetta's posts. I was very clear I didn't have the details he was stating but that I had heard similar "general" information. Go read them again, really not very extensive, particularly when compared with Vendettas information.
The information was posted not to be inflammatory but informational.
I had a very good exchange with WD. I have no hard feelings towards him and actually was able to better understand his views and I bet he understands mine better as well.
That's what these forums are supposed to be about.
My "extensive" posts on the draft was in response to Vendetta's posts. I was very clear I didn't have the details he was stating but that I had heard similar "general" information. Go read them again, really not very extensive, particularly when compared with Vendettas information.
The information was posted not to be inflammatory but informational.
I had a very good exchange with WD. I have no hard feelings towards him and actually was able to better understand his views and I bet he understands mine better as well.
That's what these forums are supposed to be about.
My replies are sometimes meant to educate, not that WD learns. Did you catch the, what was it? Certainty that LUS had 50% of it's pilots on furlough at the time of the US/AW merger? He was wrong, I showed him from Mr. Nicolau. I doubt he appreciated it, but perhaps others realized he's full of it.
When everyone was throwing around what the draft contained I winced. It inflamed some on the west. If the rumors are wrong you will never hear the end of it. But unlike you, I didn't think it was my place to preach to others about what they write. Unless I know that it's factually incorrect.
08-22-2016, 06:38 PM
#1583
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit 26 June 2015
“…USAPA has served as the stalking horse for the East Pilots’ exclusive interests and left the West Pilots bereft of representation. USAPA’s manifest disregard for the interests of the West Pilots and its discriminatory conduct towards them constitutes a clear breach of duty. Accordingly, we reverse the district court’s conclusion that USAPA did not breach its duty of fair representation, and remand with instructions to enjoin USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond proceedings except to the extent that USAPA will advocate the Nicolau Award..”
If you did "everything legally", why exactly did the 9th rule this way?
“…USAPA has served as the stalking horse for the East Pilots’ exclusive interests and left the West Pilots bereft of representation. USAPA’s manifest disregard for the interests of the West Pilots and its discriminatory conduct towards them constitutes a clear breach of duty. Accordingly, we reverse the district court’s conclusion that USAPA did not breach its duty of fair representation, and remand with instructions to enjoin USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond proceedings except to the extent that USAPA will advocate the Nicolau Award..”
If you did "everything legally", why exactly did the 9th rule this way?
08-22-2016, 07:10 PM
#1584
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: A330
Posts: 173
Always worried about how much money we've spent to defend ourselves from the schoolyard bully. You really should be much more concerned about your EPSIC/USAPA/Whateveryoucallit funding.
Those people that CONTRIBUTED to our legal defense are just fine. Those that contributed less or little are just fine too. Judge Conrad will finish that, and we'll see what the SLI will be.
The BOA has all the information that they need to deliver a fair, final & binding list. They are from a small group of professional arbitrators that are keenly aware of the past 10 years.
Those people that CONTRIBUTED to our legal defense are just fine. Those that contributed less or little are just fine too. Judge Conrad will finish that, and we'll see what the SLI will be.
The BOA has all the information that they need to deliver a fair, final & binding list. They are from a small group of professional arbitrators that are keenly aware of the past 10 years.
I think when the list comes out the east will have the least amount of funding to do.. I've tried to manage your expectations a few weeks ago but I'm concerned you are not gonna be a happy camper in a few short weeks.
08-22-2016, 07:50 PM
#1585
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 431
08-22-2016, 08:57 PM
#1586
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: On all fours
Posts: 516
First off, the term "third lister" is often confused with "new hire". Third-listers were those hired from 2008 until the POR. So while some are fairly new, many have been on property for a while.
Secondly, not all of us will spend eons in a 777, etc. Lots of third- and fourth-listers came over later in life. I myself am 43 and I'm technically a 4th lister. I doubt I'll spend a lot of time in any wide body, and that's ok. I'll likely have the opportunity to sit left seat in a Group IV for several years before retirement, assuming WWIII doesn't happen, etc.
Some guys did get hired on at a young age but most of them are 4th listers and were never really US Airways new hires. The guys and gals you speak of (3rd listers involved in the SLI) are not 25 year old wide-eyed newbies that will be 777 captains for 15 years.
Secondly, not all of us will spend eons in a 777, etc. Lots of third- and fourth-listers came over later in life. I myself am 43 and I'm technically a 4th lister. I doubt I'll spend a lot of time in any wide body, and that's ok. I'll likely have the opportunity to sit left seat in a Group IV for several years before retirement, assuming WWIII doesn't happen, etc.
Some guys did get hired on at a young age but most of them are 4th listers and were never really US Airways new hires. The guys and gals you speak of (3rd listers involved in the SLI) are not 25 year old wide-eyed newbies that will be 777 captains for 15 years.
08-22-2016, 09:14 PM
#1587
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: B737
Posts: 1,204
Well yeah...my mistake. I always default to the fact that Airways started most of its hiring in 2008, although they did hire some in late 2007. Those folks were furloughed briefly, but by 2009-2010, the hiring started again and didn't stop. Rather than get mired in the details of who was hired when, my point is there are many 3rd listers who've been around for a while and it seems wrong to say a 2001 LAA hire, who was furloughed before they were even done with their probationary year, would be placed above a guy who was active for 6+ years.
08-22-2016, 09:32 PM
#1588
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Well yeah...my mistake. I always default to the fact that Airways started most of its hiring in 2008, although they did hire some in late 2007. Those folks were furloughed briefly, but by 2009-2010, the hiring started again and didn't stop. Rather than get mired in the details of who was hired when, my point is there are many 3rd listers who've been around for a while and it seems wrong to say a 2001 LAA hire, who was furloughed before they were even done with their probationary year, would be placed above a guy who was active for 6+ years.
08-22-2016, 11:24 PM
#1589
Are we there yet??!!
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,010
The last furloughed AA guy was contacted May 13 and the 3 yr clock started ticking.
Anyone out on furlough and not back by Dec 13 was bypassing. More than enough time to schedule a class. 7 months.
More than 1000 still out on Dec 13
AA brought a lot more pilots than they brought seats.
A third lister is DOH from 2007-2013.
The rough average age at DOH is a 3rd lister is 35+.
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