Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

I think you either should re-read it or revise your previous statement on AWA was about to close. In reading this it was filled with "may have been", "could have potentially" and not once did it state it was a forgone conclusion that AWA would have failed. It did say that USAIR was bankrupt and in ch 11.

WD

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

USAIR had half of its pilots on furlough another indisputable fact.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

I think you either should re-read it or revise your previous statement on AWA was about to close. In reading this it was filled with "may have been", "could have potentially" and not once did it state it was a forgone conclusion that AWA would have failed. It did say that USAIR was bankrupt and in ch 11.

WD

Originally Posted by Upsddown

WD,

Without meaning to pick at this wound any deeper many just can't come to the same conclusion as those based in PHX.

Yes, George Nicolau presented an award that would have given the PHX based pilots "opportunities" they would not have been afforded absent the merger with US. Yes, the Easts pilots "exploited" a loop hole that was able to avoid the implementation of Mr. Nicolau's decision.

That's where the sensibility of the understanding of what occurred between the West and East ends.

AWA started flying in 1983 with one pilot domicile, PHX. For a brief period of time starting in 2005 they had a domicile in LAS but that was eventually closed leaving PHX as the only pilot domicile once again.

In the late 80's AWA acquired 4 747's to operate to HNL and Asia but a few years later after an unsuccessful attempt to make them work, the aircraft were taken out of service. Leaving AWA a narrow body airline as it was before.

In the late 90's AWA opened up a mini-hub in Columbus but after a few years it too was closed down.

So with the exception of brief attempts to branch out, AWA has been a narrow body airline based solely out of PHX since it started in 1983.

So from an outsiders perspective it is hard to to understand this "stuck on an island" or "living in a fish bowl" conjecture.

Had the US merger never happened (yes I understand but it did happen) what were the PHX based pilots' prospects? For nearly 25 years before the US merger every pilot hired on at AWA was hired by an airline that had one pilot domicile, PHX, and with only narrow body aircraft flying, and no Europe, Asia or South America flying (with the briefs exceptions noted before).

What were the expectations when the application was filled out and job offer was accepted for a pilot hired prior to the announcement of the US merger?
Was it a "island/fish bowl" existence or did they get hired thinking they would be flying A350's to Europe or Asia one day making some of the highest pay rates in the world?

One man, George Nicolau, sat down and wrote an opinion. In that opinion (award), the expectations of a AWA pilot changed instantly, as it should have given the award. But until the award was actually implemented they were just that, expectations.

Now fast forward, former AWA pilots will soon have their choice of 11 domiciles geographically located all over the US, instead of just one as they've had since 1983.

They will immediately have the opportunity to start flying twin aisle WB aircraft and will ultimately have the opportunity to fly LWB.

They will immediately have the opportunity to begin flying to destinations in Europe, Asia, South America and points throughout the carribean.

Not to mention the 60% plus pay and pension increases along with these aircraft and flying opportunities.

No one can change the "killing" of the pilot group since 2008. That's history.
But to most outside of PHX the killing is no different than what has occurred since 1983, one pilot domicile flying only narrow body aircraft.

The one item most should be able to agree with PHX based pilots is that as a result of the US/AWA merger PHX has been able to be shrunk further than it would have as a stand alone carrier given the synergies of both carriers. However with that acknowledgement should also be the acknowledgement that this was only done because of the economics of PHX.

The reason for my response. You're a 63 year old man making statements about impending Armageddon if the pilots of PHX don't get their just deserves. The vitriol views of many are becoming concerning. I truly don't hear this level of anger from the East.

No one is going to undo the past 8 years. We shall see what these arbs decide to do. But regardless of their decision with the NIC, PHX based pilots go from 1 base to 11. Narrow body airplanes to WB and LWB. North America flying to flying all over the world.

Regardless the decision of the NIC can you and the other PHX based pilots not find solace and happiness in that, knowing your life on the island is finally over?

Originally Posted by R57 relay

Oh good Lord. R...I mean WD, why do we do this? Over and over again you make stupid claims and I fire up the laptop to go to my files and show you are wrong. You crawl off, only to make the same claim sometime later.

From your buddy George Nicolau:

"At the time of the US Air/America West merger, US Airways had a grand total of 5098 pilots on its seniority list, 1691 of which (33%) were on furlough. Their dates of hire (DOH) ranged from 4/20/66 to 6/19/00, with thevmost senior furloughed pilot (Colello) having been hired in 1988. Whenvfurloughed in 2003, Colello (3303) had 16.4 years of service."

33%. High, but not half. So no, not an indisputable fact at all.

You want and SEC filing that AWA might have filed Chp 11? I don't have a MBA. but I'm pretty sure companies don't have to file those "what ifs" in a SEC document. I've shown you over and over again the 2004 10-k where AWA listed all the things stacked against them. The one where AWA lost money. The one where you ended 2004 with one less airplane than you started 2004 with, and how your fleet was structured with great flexibility. What do you and your buddies do? Stick your fingers in your ears, repeat the 7 year captain BS and tell everyone how awful it is to be a 13 year F/O! You don't get it when the LAA guys on C&R have no sympathy for you.

It's over. Move on. Just as ups told you, you guys have many more opportunities ahead of you than you ever dreamed of. If you let this ruin your life, then that's YOUR fault.

Beer is still on me whenever you want. Or whatever you're drinking these days.

Originally Posted by airmailpilot

"revise your previous statement on AWA was about to close."

Please provide Airmail Quote you accused me of. You can not.

You will have to get back in line in career progression, get over it.

Frankly, I think you need help with your stress.

You need to take time away from forums.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

Ok this is all you will ever receive from me, first initial is J TR not R. I do so like your relentlessness be it right or wrong.

WD

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

I apologize was reading it but responding to Vendetta about pending doors closures.

WD

Originally Posted by R57 relay

Uh huh.

It's right.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

Ok I suggest you go with that

WD