Originally Posted by Saul Rosenberg

Whisky Driver,

Sounds like you have some inside info about a pending response from the Army. Why would they be planning something so epic?


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Originally Posted by R57 relay

Great reply upsddown, but just one thing-I don't believe WD is a 63 year old former BN pilot. He has a pretty distinctive writing style that seems very familiar. ��

Originally Posted by R57 relay

Great reply upsddown, but just one thing-I don't believe WD is a 63 year old former BN pilot. He has a pretty distinctive writing style that seems very familiar. 😀

Originally Posted by Upsddown

WD,

Without meaning to pick at this wound any deeper many just can't come to the same conclusion as those based in PHX.

Yes, George Nicolau presented an award that would have given the PHX based pilots "opportunities" they would not have been afforded absent the merger with US. Yes, the Easts pilots "exploited" a loop hole that was able to avoid the implementation of Mr. Nicolau's decision.

That's where the sensibility of the understanding of what occurred between the West and East ends.

AWA started flying in 1983 with one pilot domicile, PHX. For a brief period of time starting in 2005 they had a domicile in LAS but that was eventually closed leaving PHX as the only pilot domicile once again.

In the late 80's AWA acquired 4 747's to operate to HNL and Asia but a few years later after an unsuccessful attempt to make them work, the aircraft were taken out of service. Leaving AWA a narrow body airline as it was before.

In the late 90's AWA opened up a mini-hub in Columbus but after a few years it too was closed down.

So with the exception of brief attempts to branch out, AWA has been a narrow body airline based solely out of PHX since it started in 1983.

So from an outsiders perspective it is hard to to understand this "stuck on an island" or "living in a fish bowl" conjecture.

Had the US merger never happened (yes I understand but it did happen) what were the PHX based pilots' prospects? For nearly 25 years before the US merger every pilot hired on at AWA was hired by an airline that had one pilot domicile, PHX, and with only narrow body aircraft flying, and no Europe, Asia or South America flying (with the briefs exceptions noted before).

What were the expectations when the application was filled out and job offer was accepted for a pilot hired prior to the announcement of the US merger?
Was it a "island/fish bowl" existence or did they get hired thinking they would be flying A350's to Europe or Asia one day making some of the highest pay rates in the world?

One man, George Nicolau, sat down and wrote an opinion. In that opinion (award), the expectations of a AWA pilot changed instantly, as it should have given the award. But until the award was actually implemented they were just that, expectations.

Now fast forward, former AWA pilots will soon have their choice of 11 domiciles geographically located all over the US, instead of just one as they've had since 1983.

They will immediately have the opportunity to start flying twin aisle WB aircraft and will ultimately have the opportunity to fly LWB.

They will immediately have the opportunity to begin flying to destinations in Europe, Asia, South America and points throughout the carribean.

Not to mention the 60% plus pay and pension increases along with these aircraft and flying opportunities.

No one can change the "killing" of the pilot group since 2008. That's history.
But to most outside of PHX the killing is no different than what has occurred since 1983, one pilot domicile flying only narrow body aircraft.

The one item most should be able to agree with PHX based pilots is that as a result of the US/AWA merger PHX has been able to be shrunk further than it would have as a stand alone carrier given the synergies of both carriers. However with that acknowledgement should also be the acknowledgement that this was only done because of the economics of PHX.

The reason for my response. You're a 63 year old man making statements about impending Armageddon if the pilots of PHX don't get their just deserves. The vitriol views of many are becoming concerning. I truly don't hear this level of anger from the East.

No one is going to undo the past 8 years. We shall see what these arbs decide to do. But regardless of their decision with the NIC, PHX based pilots go from 1 base to 11. Narrow body airplanes to WB and LWB. North America flying to flying all over the world.

Regardless the decision of the NIC can you and the other PHX based pilots not find solace and happiness in that, knowing your life on the island is finally over?

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

It's so very difficult to answer your questions because I am one individual and I can not say what others may think or feel. I know that the hard feelings over this thing run exceptionally deep and there are people that will never let it go. In the end right is right and wrong is wrong. I can agree with a lot of what you've stated but you also left out some very large pieces such as where was USAIR on that date? How were they doing as a carrier? Well we both know the answer is they were in bankruptcy about to die. They received new life in the form of AMERICA WEST that lil airline in the desert started in 1983. In the time since then, they have enjoyed employment that was not assured in 2004. They have enjoyed growth that was all but terminated in 2004. They have enjoy upgrades that were furloughs in 2004. I think it would be safe to say that you have left out some of the biggest pieces in your post. That's ok because you were attempting to make a point and by mentioning those things the point would be somewhat lost. I haven't the foggiest idea what's to come in the future or how some will respond. I can only guess based upon what has transpired so far which is why I said what I said. The potential exists for people to be extremely angry and that will last for some time.

WD

Originally Posted by Vendetta

The one part you left out was America West was a few months away from closing its doors itself and they didn't have their own money to buy anything let alone us. It's just those tiny little details.

Originally Posted by AAFlagship

HP may have been months away from closing the hangar doors, but US was days or maybe even hours from the same fate.

And there were zero furloughed pilots at HP. How many did US have, 1800 or so? Another tiny little detail omitted..

Originally Posted by Vendetta

The one part you left out was America West was a few months away from closing its doors itself and they didn't have their own money to buy anything let alone us. It's just those tiny little details.

Originally Posted by AAFlagship

HP may have been months away from closing the hangar doors, but US was days or maybe even hours from the same fate.

And there were zero furloughed pilots at HP. How many did US have, 1800 or so? Another tiny little detail omitted..