Upsddown

Fair enough. I obviously cannot tell you what the West committee did or did not receive but I can tell you other committees were able to determine their represented pilots' position on an integrated list based on the draft award. I would find it hard to believe the arbs gave that level of information to some committees but not all committees.

Wiskey Driver

In all honesty my info is really 2nd hand. I asked someone who basically asked someone. Maybe that's 3rd hand? It really doesn't matter because all will be made clear soon.

WD

Upsddown

I agree. It's gotten to the point I don't think anyone has good enough and current enough information to be sure their details are still reflective of what the final award may be. Early on I received direct details but it was of a general nature before anyone realized the true nature of this, as you say, unorthodox process. A lot could have changed in 60 days.

I think most at this point want to get the award and move on. Myself included. I wish there was a way for the West and East to bury the hatchet and finally get past this without splitting open one another's skulls in the aftermath. It's just been too ugly for too long. Life's too short.

Wiskey Driver

Well that is just not going to happen now. There are those who will not agree with me but never in the history of this profession has one been so very nasty. The real nastiness has yet to been seen but wait for it because it will be epic and history in the making.

WD

PRS Guitars

Sounds like a threat to me. Better be careful in this day and age with language like that on a public forum.

Upsddown

Sad outlook.

It will be hard to eclipse the anymosity seen between the strikers and scabs of Continental in 1983 or Eastern in 89, but absent those, you may be right.

Mergers provide opportunities, not rights. Unfortunately, that's not the view of most.

It's a shame pilots can't separate their jobs from their lives. For many they become one and as acresult they lose all sense of why they are on this planet.

Wiskey Driver

I find it rather interesting how people perceive things. Now in that you saw that with which you wanted to see and not what was actually there. The threat is and has been killing this pilot group since 08. Now if you find that my merely pointing it out is threatening, what does that tell you?

WD

Wiskey Driver

Could not agree more.

WD

Saul Rosenberg

Whisky Driver,

Sounds like you have some inside info about a pending response from the Army. Why would they be planning something so epic?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Upsddown

WD,

Without meaning to pick at this wound any deeper many just can't come to the same conclusion as those based in PHX.

Yes, George Nicolau presented an award that would have given the PHX based pilots "opportunities" they would not have been afforded absent the merger with US. Yes, the Easts pilots "exploited" a loop hole that was able to avoid the implementation of Mr. Nicolau's decision.

That's where the sensibility of the understanding of what occurred between the West and East ends.

AWA started flying in 1983 with one pilot domicile, PHX. For a brief period of time starting in 2005 they had a domicile in LAS but that was eventually closed leaving PHX as the only pilot domicile once again.

In the late 80's AWA acquired 4 747's to operate to HNL and Asia but a few years later after an unsuccessful attempt to make them work, the aircraft were taken out of service. Leaving AWA a narrow body airline as it was before.

In the late 90's AWA opened up a mini-hub in Columbus but after a few years it too was closed down.

So with the exception of brief attempts to branch out, AWA has been a narrow body airline based solely out of PHX since it started in 1983.

So from an outsiders perspective it is hard to to understand this "stuck on an island" or "living in a fish bowl" conjecture.

Had the US merger never happened (yes I understand but it did happen) what were the PHX based pilots' prospects? For nearly 25 years before the US merger every pilot hired on at AWA was hired by an airline that had one pilot domicile, PHX, and with only narrow body aircraft flying, and no Europe, Asia or South America flying (with the briefs exceptions noted before).

What were the expectations when the application was filled out and job offer was accepted for a pilot hired prior to the announcement of the US merger?
Was it a "island/fish bowl" existence or did they get hired thinking they would be flying A350's to Europe or Asia one day making some of the highest pay rates in the world?

One man, George Nicolau, sat down and wrote an opinion. In that opinion (award), the expectations of a AWA pilot changed instantly, as it should have given the award. But until the award was actually implemented they were just that, expectations.

Now fast forward, former AWA pilots will soon have their choice of 11 domiciles geographically located all over the US, instead of just one as they've had since 1983.

They will immediately have the opportunity to start flying twin aisle WB aircraft and will ultimately have the opportunity to fly LWB.

They will immediately have the opportunity to begin flying to destinations in Europe, Asia, South America and points throughout the carribean.

Not to mention the 60% plus pay and pension increases along with these aircraft and flying opportunities.

No one can change the "killing" of the pilot group since 2008. That's history.
But to most outside of PHX the killing is no different than what has occurred since 1983, one pilot domicile flying only narrow body aircraft.

The one item most should be able to agree with PHX based pilots is that as a result of the US/AWA merger PHX has been able to be shrunk further than it would have as a stand alone carrier given the synergies of both carriers. However with that acknowledgement should also be the acknowledgement that this was only done because of the economics of PHX.

The reason for my response. You're a 63 year old man making statements about impending Armageddon if the pilots of PHX don't get their just deserves. The vitriol views of many are becoming concerning. I truly don't hear this level of anger from the East.

No one is going to undo the past 8 years. We shall see what these arbs decide to do. But regardless of their decision with the NIC, PHX based pilots go from 1 base to 11. Narrow body airplanes to WB and LWB. North America flying to flying all over the world.

Regardless the decision of the NIC can you and the other PHX based pilots not find solace and happiness in that, knowing your life on the island is finally over?