Route66

All I know is that the APA wants to shove everyone's seniority under the bus except their own. THAT IS ALL I SEE AND ALL I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE APA.

If you haven't watched the latest crew news I really suggest you do. The company is doing business differently and if you are not part of the solution then you're part of the problem. I support the company. They pay my salary. I'm making industry standard and too bad for you if you think you're "underpaid".

It's a new day and the APA isn't part of it. If shoveling a thirty year guy under a fifteen year guy is your idea of "fair and equitable" then go walk the picket line by yourself.

Route66

Yeah. Get ready.

eaglefly

APA ? I thought they were neutral on the SLI ? You mean AAPSIC, right ?

Of course not. We both know you've been a staunch anti-union guy since you've hit this forum, so nothing is new.

Yes, the company IS doing business differently. IMO they are doubling down on the old tactics of the past and is that part of the solution or part of the problem ? I'd argue, it's the latter. You're making "industry standard" ? LOL ! I guess we have different benchmarks of what the industry is. If we are to be a top tier product, then no, I think we are NOT the industry (and those who report our competitive rankings apparently don't either). However, if we are comfortable with being a Bronze medal operator, then yes............we are industry standard.

As for the SLI, three committees have widely diverging beliefs about what is fair and equitable and the same beliefs you have about AAPSIC's are held by others about the EPSIC's. Thankfully, we have 3 respected neutral arbitrators who will decide what that litmus is and not any of the committees, so if your position is not validated by them, it wont be another committees fault, you'll have to blame the 3 arbitrators.

Of course should that occur, all 3 of them can't be senile old men, can they ?

svergin

The company's name may be on the check, but it was your union that told them how much to put on there.

Route66

Sorry, but ALL THE FACTS support that Kirby offered the JCBA as last and final offer and the MAJORITY voted for it. You got what Kirby SAID you could have and not a penny more.

Route66

No I DON'T mean the "AAPSIC". I mean the APA. Even the West guys are complaining the Company and the APA changed things by giving the East guys displacement rights.

Old "tactics"???? You didn't see the last crew news. Did you?

Really what YOU are is stuck in the past waiting for the "good ole union days" of 1975 (pre-deregulation). You weren't around then but I was. Those days are OVER and you union money grabbers can still tell me about all those latest "contract victories" you've gotten over at Eagle and Republic, not to mention LAA (before BK).

As far as the arbitrators are concerned, "seniority" (whatever that will mean in the future), means everyman for themselves when you union guys try to get a "contract" that you think YOU deserve. The Company has all the cards and I fully plan on taking advantage of that for the rest of my career. The 5 year or less CAPTAINS sitting in the right seat to me fully understand that and are waiting for the chance for you to take your shot.

Good luck with that.

eaglefly

You are just like that mail guy, never reading my posts. I have no illusions about the supposedly glorious past days of airline pilot unionism returning, not with the passive membership mentality/us and them leadership mentality in place now. I have no idea where you are getting this nonsensical opinion of me. It must be a USAPA thing, but in the spirit of nonsensical statements........wh....wh....who the **** are the Knutsen's ?

Well, here we don't sound too different, although we come from different foundations. Yours sounds like it has a lot of anger (with possibly more to come) and that being what appears to be the case, I don't think you'll find solace in any approach going forward and will probably ram yourself into a medically induced early retirement. Your last sentence shot over my head like a lightly loaded Lear Jet, so I'm afraid you'll have to elborate more for me to understand it.

beancounter

Fully aware I may not like the outcome, but what's alternative. Ready to move on and quit making the darn lawyers rich.

Unless I get thrown under all the third listers I plan on sticking around and I would like to see the toxic seniority battle culture end at some point.

Route66

No, but I CAN read between YOUR lines. Anger??? The only "anger" I have is pi$$ing $2000/yr to lawyers at the APA that do NOTHING but protect the interests of the "chosen few". And besides, if my health rams me into a medically induced early retirement whats it to you but to get us "senior" guys out of your way so you can move up faster.

My last statement is simple: American pays lower wages to equally qualified "first officers" who have the type rating, the 1st class medical and the ATP, probably with a fair amount of PIC turbine time from the commuters and/or military. They can do our job. Why they work for less is beyond me.

They should form their own union like the TWA pilots once had.

God knows they earned it.

AAFlagship

Thanks "end_of_ALPA."

Very interesting posts from a founding father of USAPA. A man who created an alter Union to protect the interest of an angry chosen few.

Looking forward to seeing you try to cross our APA picket line. I'm sure you'll be the first to try.