PurpleTurtle

So what are ya going to do? The court's never had the authority to implement the Nic or dictate a bargaining position. Never. If they did they would have by now. Sure some of the judges wished they could but they couldn't. Some of them mouthed off in their dicta and fueled self employment for years, but the only way forward was a negotiated solution... ergo the mou and protocol agreement that is now carrying us all to the promised land.

The west thinks they will get the Nic. The APA still thinks they can staple (as if the Arbs are ignorant that MB was written for such jack wagons). And the East thinks LOS weighting should be 55%. The BOA will weigh all relevant facts, toss out the BS, and come up with something fair and equitable. I think everyone will be surprised.

R57 relay

Yeah, we've seen how you've gotten everything right so far. How do you figure that Judge Silver is the nut case when she did what the 9th told her. Had she done what you guys...oh wait, you're not here anymore. Had she done what AOL wanted then she would have greatly overstepped what the 9th said to do. Remember, they said they would not give AOL their requested injunction, but AOL asked again anyway.

I have a feeling there is more than meets the eye with the AAPSIC proposal.

One thing we agree on was that the arbs were never required to use the Nic. It was and is up to them.

cactiboss

We aren't going to a thing with the courts is my take, just walk into arbitration and let the chips fall where they may.

eaglefly

So just to be clear on the West's (or their pilots) list of nut jobs, whacko's and ho's, we have :

- USAPA (a long list)
- The new East committee (apparently still USAPA)
- APA (conspirators with USAPA)
- AAG management (conspirators with APA)
- AAPSIC (the "new" Nic.....but actually, now the "old" Nic )
- Silver (a "Ho")
- The 9th (screw ups)
- Any pilot here who questions the West's goals and desires (nut jobs/whacko's)

.....have I missed anyone.

About all that's left not christened (at least yet) are the arbitrators......but, the process is young.

cactiboss

The Aapsic is using Nic. because the 9th decision vindicates west. They say it this way in their proposal:
I think it's as simple as they describe it, no nepharious reasons behind it, they feel the boa will use Nic. so they propose it to make their list work.

R57 relay

IMHO, it doesn't work.

They seemed to be hedging with this:

A. The Treatment Of The Nicolau Award
This case is about the integration of the three seniority lists in effect as of the Snapshot date – the American, East and West seniority lists – in the context of the American-US Airways merger, as of December 9, 2013. The applicable equities to weigh in this matter are the pre-merger expectations of those three distinct pilot groups, immediately prior to that Snapshot Date, as stipulated by the parties. In that context, the Nicolau Award does not reflect the equities of these groups, at that time, in the context of this transaction, for a variety of reasons, including the following:
* The Protocol Agreement expressly provided for the exchange of information based on “the
status quo of the three seniority lists in effect at the carriers on December 9, 2013 (i.e.,
American, US Airways (East), US Airways (West)).” (Jt.Exh. 7, at 5.)
* The Nicolau Award arose in the context of the 2005 merger of US Airways and America West.
Arbitrator Nicolau weighed the equities at that time, given the transaction and parties before
him, not the equities applicable to the present case.
* The Nicolau Award accordingly did not, and does not, take into account the equities of
American Pilots, who were not parties before Arbitrator Nicolau.
* The Nicolau Award has never been implemented or governed seniority.
* As of December 9, 2013, there was no realistic prospect that the Nicolau Award would be
implemented absent the merger.
* The equities underlying the Nicolau Award have been impeded by the continued maintenance
of the separate East and West operations and seniority lists since 2007.
* The hypothetical implementation of the Nicolau Award with a single US Airways CBA would
have impacted US Airways’ performance, and led to a different set of realities as of December
9, 2013 than existed on that date.
Accordingly, the proper starting point for the integration is “the three seniority lists in effect at the
carriers on December 9, 2013 (i.e., American, US Airways (East), US Airways (West))” identified in the Protocol.

cactiboss

That is pretty much guaranteed. I do believe it will be closest to west proposal though. I thing everyone will end up within 10% of west proposed list. At ual/cal everyone ended within 5% of where Freund proposed they should be.

cactiboss

I interpret that as part of their discussion explaining their method, as you see their conclusion after writing this is that the Nic. is the list because of usapa's dfr in writing mou and 9th decision is "tie breaker"

R57 relay

Then the AAPSIC adds this:

Notwithstanding that proposition, the AAPSIC acknowledges that the Nicolau Award cannot
be avoided. The West Pilots have always asserted that they are entitled to the benefits of the Nicolau
Award. The Protocol Agreement and the Preliminary Arbitration Board’s order acknowledge the East
and West Pilots’ competing interests. While the Nicolau Award is not binding on the Arbitration
Board, the West Pilots’ claim that it should be the basis for integrating the East and West seniority
lists cannot be denied.
The Ninth Circuit’s holding, that the denial of the Nicolau Award in Paragraph 10.h. of the
MOU breached USAPA’s duty of fair representation, is effectively the tie-breaker on this question.
With the Ninth Circuit’s affirmation of the West Pilots’ reasonable expectation of the Nicolau Award,
the AASPIC acknowledges it as the starting point for ranking the East and West Pilots on the ISL.
As part of the ISL, the US Airways Pilots (East and West) should be ordered based on the Nicolau
Award.
This has the effect of giving the great majority of West Pilots significantly better placement
on the seniority list than they otherwise might have achieved. In addition, the jobs held by the West
and East Pilots on and after December 9, 2013 do not reflect the equities of the Nicolau Award – many
of the jobs in the “combined” pre-merger US Airways operation to which the West Pilots would have
had access under the Nicolau Award, are in fact held by East Pilots. Entirely apart from the other
transitional issues raised by the implementation of the ISL, the job allocations as between the West
and East Pilots must be rationalized according to the Nicolau Award as those pilots compete for jobs
with each other for the first time, so that West Pilots achieve their expectations vis a vis the East
Pilots.
71
In that regard, it must be emphasized that the West Pilots’ claim to the Nicolau Award is a
claim against the East Pilots, not the American Pilots. The American Pilots are innocent bystanders
in the “Hatfields-and-McCoys” feud between the East and West Pilots. As the West Pilots’ jobs are
rationalized vis a vis the East Pilots based on the Nicolau Award under the ISL, those West Pilot gains
should come at the expense of the East Pilots, not the American Pilots.

So it seems to me that they didn't really want the Nic, just thought it would be ordered and wanted to get their ducks in a row, while reminding the panel that they don't have to use it.

R57 relay

I was adding that as you posted.