En Banc Denied!
08-25-2015, 10:18 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Apparently so.
The "legitimacy" of the Nic is a subjective and thus arguable concept unless the arbitrators are compelled to incorporate that in pure form in their final ISL. They are not and HAVE not by anyone including the 9th. The fact that the 9th appellate went to great measure to ensure their ruling would not be construed as such says as much about the ruling as their enjoinment of the Nic to USAPA.
Perhaps the euphoria of that ruling and the subsequent and repetitive hangovers that are resulting from its aftermath is altering your comprehension ?
The "legitimacy" of the Nic is a subjective and thus arguable concept unless the arbitrators are compelled to incorporate that in pure form in their final ISL. They are not and HAVE not by anyone including the 9th. The fact that the 9th appellate went to great measure to ensure their ruling would not be construed as such says as much about the ruling as their enjoinment of the Nic to USAPA.
Perhaps the euphoria of that ruling and the subsequent and repetitive hangovers that are resulting from its aftermath is altering your comprehension ?
Let's see if Silver can build a better grenade to toss at the Arb Panel.
08-25-2015, 02:19 PM
#52
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Sure, the 9th appellate provided the West with important validation and that may indeed be consummated. I just think that consummating that now solely as a result of this merger is not justification for rationalizing West domination in the post merger "new" AA. The West's proposal will essentially make the extreme minority West the "king of the hill" for years to come.
08-25-2015, 07:50 PM
#53
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Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A330
Posts: 1,043
Cacti, you won against USAPA, don't they have 1.7 feet in the grave? Just like the LAA Committee isn't linked to APA (cough cough), the East Committee shouldn't be linked to USAPA.
08-25-2015, 07:59 PM
#54
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Position: A330
Posts: 1,043
08-25-2015, 08:04 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Posts: 227
1) Nic for sure. Pretty strong position. These are arbs looking at another arbs decision. Courts haven't spoken highly of east either. This hurts east.
2) This is probably the weakest, because it depends on a view of the relative US / AA strength that I don't agree with fully though AA was in bankruptcy. Blended longevity has happened in past arbs - so can't be ruled out. I see it as a smart argument by west - if they can sell this.
3) Fences etc etc. West again on strong ground, past arbs have shown fences etc cause a lot of fuss and grievance so the move is to resolve things in the SLI order itself. It's going to be very light on the fences. That said, the two fences proposed are an A-350 one or Group IV captain fences - which benefits west by letting them pick up easts attrition in both cases.
08-25-2015, 09:42 PM
#56
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
This is very helpful. I agree with your points - west is going for exactly that "hat trick"
1) Nic for sure. Pretty strong position. These are arbs looking at another arbs decision. Courts haven't spoken highly of east either. This hurts east.
2) This is probably the weakest, because it depends on a view of the relative US / AA strength that I don't agree with fully though AA was in bankruptcy. Blended longevity has happened in past arbs - so can't be ruled out. I see it as a smart argument by west - if they can sell this.
3) Fences etc etc. West again on strong ground, past arbs have shown fences etc cause a lot of fuss and grievance so the move is to resolve things in the SLI order itself. It's going to be very light on the fences. That said, the two fences proposed are an A-350 one or Group IV captain fences - which benefits west by letting them pick up easts attrition in both cases.
1) Nic for sure. Pretty strong position. These are arbs looking at another arbs decision. Courts haven't spoken highly of east either. This hurts east.
2) This is probably the weakest, because it depends on a view of the relative US / AA strength that I don't agree with fully though AA was in bankruptcy. Blended longevity has happened in past arbs - so can't be ruled out. I see it as a smart argument by west - if they can sell this.
3) Fences etc etc. West again on strong ground, past arbs have shown fences etc cause a lot of fuss and grievance so the move is to resolve things in the SLI order itself. It's going to be very light on the fences. That said, the two fences proposed are an A-350 one or Group IV captain fences - which benefits west by letting them pick up easts attrition in both cases.
08-25-2015, 10:45 PM
#57
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Change your name when things don't go your way? Where have the courts seen that before? Let's see if Silver buys that after she looks at the documents we have showing usapa collusion with new committee.
08-25-2015, 10:50 PM
#58
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
That's for the arbitrators to decide. The 9th has in no way tied their hands to craft whatever ISL they see fit considering the circumstances. The circumstances however aren't so simple and cut and dried as the West committee seems to believe. Oh, I can understand their position, that being one of engineering a landscape providing maximum benefit to their pre-merger pilot group by seeing this SLI as existing in a black hole from the past where the Nic is the inescapable force that sucks everyone and everything toward it, but it seems at least to me, doing that not only gives the West a windfall result based on realistic pre-merger expectations and does so at the expense of LAA pilots, especially junior unless there are other factors to offset such a windfall.
Sure, the 9th appellate provided the West with important validation and that may indeed be consummated. I just think that consummating that now solely as a result of this merger is not justification for rationalizing West domination in the post merger "new" AA. The West's proposal will essentially make the extreme minority West the "king of the hill" for years to come.
Sure, the 9th appellate provided the West with important validation and that may indeed be consummated. I just think that consummating that now solely as a result of this merger is not justification for rationalizing West domination in the post merger "new" AA. The West's proposal will essentially make the extreme minority West the "king of the hill" for years to come.
08-26-2015, 12:02 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
The west brings the nic. positions wether you like it or not, it's a fact. The west and east committee will present the nic. as the lus list, learn to live with that because that is what this 9th ruling means. Now your aapsic is free to show up and be the "new nics" all they want.
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