fr8tmastr

Of course a merger happened, but what didn't happen was a combined contract and the resulting combined seniority list, they were separate up to and including now. That is the argument for the arbitrators.

The West having their own committee requires that the East only represents the East.

eaglefly

Yes. That's why I used the term "many" to describe this situation. Actually, if I were to go on just this forum alone, the most accurate term would be "most", but I'll stick to "many" as that is a more subjective term. Let's face it.........most airline pilots rationalize and advocate any seniority integration methodology that benefits them the most. It's simply one of the many ways we try to screw each other and simply another reason why we can never beat management in screwing US.

eaglefly

We've beaten this like a rented mule. Not all integration issues are identical and not all issues in THiS integration automatically take a back seat to the Nicolau situation. I can understand from your POV though that the sun rises, sets and was itself born of the Nic and I know that will never change even AFTER this SLI, just as the TWA debacle never has. I'm sure it will be the last thought through your mind as your heart takes its final beat.

cactiboss

Yes and you miss the point, while arguing that the west never had "expectations" they will reveal the east never had "expectations" of anything but loa 93, don't you get that?

cactiboss

Because your logic fails at every turn. It especially fails if you look at ual/cal and f9/republic decisions. "single corporate control" is the determiner of "career expectations", not a scab unions machinations. Your own opinion here that "constructive notice" determines things is proof of how wrong you are as awa/us have a constructive notice of 9/2005.

eaglefly

Well many of those furloughs were hired in 2001........and hired at AA and not US Airways. If they place that 2001 furlough junior to to say a 2009 US Airways hire, that would put 2500 AA pilots junior to him junior to the 2009 US Airways 3rd lister since there will be no recording of any pre-merger seniority lists. Many of those AA pilots were back on AA property prior to the merge and at the date of merger had career expectations that included a 900 aircraft order/option schedule and 150 777/787's and now theoretically watching a 2009 US Airways pilot pole-vault over them.

I realize that's an attractive position to want to be in, but I think that would easily make "windfall" status. Since no pre-merger list can be reordered (as to do so would destroy the concept of any given pilots pre-merger career expectations) and pre-merger career expectations will definitely be a major factor in consideration, I don't see much chance of such a situation occurring as desirable as it may be. I can see a how a 2009 East pilot would like to jump 2500 AA pilots right off the bat though. Couple that with whacking the West and no Nicolau and a 2009 3rd lister could theoretically have 3500 or more pilots junior to him in the final ISL (2500 AA, 500 East and maybe 500+ on the West which is more then half their F/O list).

Personally, considering these philosophies obviously in play, I'm liking the idea of just fencing off pre-merger AA and U in entirety for perhaps 7-10 years. I don't see how anyone could argue with that. It's the one certain way ALL pilots would follow their pre-merger paths and rights with the only open issue then, how to resolve the Nic on the U side.

eaglefly

None of those had the Nicolau considerations and as the arbitrators in the UAL/CAL arbitration carefully noted, each merger and SLI hinges on its own issues. That mule is now dead. Repeatedly striking it serves no purpose at this point.

cactiboss

Yes they each hinge on their own issues as well as "single corporate control" which you completely discount. Think about how swrdrvr doesn't think there will be a widebody fence between east/west, how can that be if we have separate career expectations? Again doesnt pass the simple logic test.

FreighterGuyNow

Your expectation was to spend an entire career flying a narrowbody out of PHX for bottom of the barrel wages.

It will be met.

cactiboss

Yours was doing the same for 20% less.