Al Czervik

Seriously?

KiloAlpha

They will be stapled below the 1/xx/2015 class

KiloAlpha

Yep. Some claim their date of hire should be the date they completed upgrade training at Eagle

FreighterGuyNow

When it was all done, soup ta nuts, the F/A's had it all done in 2014. Not going to be integrated untill 2017 at least.

2016 plus 3 years means 2019 till the PHX castaways see the rescue vessel.

eaglefly

The 824 flows didn't obtain AA seniority prior to their starting class at AA, so I don't see how that would be an issue. All of them were hired post merger as well.

eaglefly

Apples and Oranges. I suppose the ex-TWA pilots could say the same thing. Desired career expectations are not the same as actual career expectations. One is hypothetical and the other is based on reality. The reality is that at the time of merger, there were 3 sets of pilot groups each with a reasonably quantifiable career expectation based on their carriers pre-merger situation and thus THEIR pre-merger expectations. For example, at merger minus one day, what were America West pilots REALISTIC International Group IV expectations ?

That is one of the aspects of the SLI the arbitrators will have to evaluate.

eaglefly

....and many of the U third listers believe those at AA who lost longevity due to furlough should be slotted below them along with such flows. In order to accomplish that, the arbitrators would have to essentially start cherry-picking pilots out of their pre-merger seniority lists and rearranging them on the new list out of pre-merger seniority list order. Since APA is on record as stating rearrangement of any of the pre-merger lists will not happen, it makes it difficult to see what the resolution of such issues would be, but there would only seem to be two options;

A. Slot AA pilot X (flowthru or furloughee) below U 3rd lister Y and essentially penalize all those junior at AA (the sinking tide swamps all AA boats junior as the pre-merger AA list will not be reordered) or B. Slot AA pilot X (flowthru or furloughee) above U 3rd lister Y and essentially benefit all those junior at AA (the rising tide assists all AA boats junior as the pre-merger AA list will not be reordered). Clearly, the U 3rd listers want the former and junior AA pilots, the latter. It's quite possible you'll see various blocks of pilots wedged in where BOTH of these occur depending on ones seniority and it will be the luck of the draw.

In my case, it's possible I could end up junior to a U 3rd lister whose DOH is after my occupational seniority date (AA version of DOH for seniority) and be senior to a more junior U 3rd lister whose DOH is senior to the date I began training at AA. There was well over a decade between the time I obtained my AA occupational seniority and the date I began training.

KiloAlpha

Having been here for 2 years, I'm ok with AA furloughs going above me. It is the 3rd listers who have been here for 5-6 years that are arguing for AA furloughs with less than 2 years active employment to go below them.

Not all 3rd listers are created equal, don't group us all together (in this case).

cactiboss

oh man, this is rich. So you believe extremely experienced arbitrators will just say a merger never happened even though all usairways pilots work under a single certificate, single union and single management. The best part to come is when USAPA argues against the west, the very people they represented, tough spot to be in Sioux torpedoing their own expectations.

MarineGrunt

It looks like he's saying exactly that to me... I can't fathom why any new hire would think a furloughee should be junior to them or why any flowthrough would think they should be senior to someone hired at AA before them.