Usapa update 1/17 RE: arbitration
01-20-2015, 01:39 PM
#91
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Yes they each hinge on their own issues as well as "single corporate control" which you completely discount. Think about how swrdrvr doesn't think there will be a widebody fence between east/west, how can that be if we have separate career expectations? Again doesnt pass the simple logic test.
I think you've wound yourself up into convincing yourself your perception is the only certainty in this SLI because to consider them not is simply too traumatic.
01-20-2015, 01:44 PM
#92
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Like it or not, that will likely be one argument made in the SLI, i.e., that the best the West brought to the merger were $130/hour (or whatever) narrowbody jobs flying primarily tourists out of one domicile not unlike say, Allegiant. I'm not saying with any certainty what weight will be afforded that, just that all kinds of valid considerations will have to be confronted and either validated or rejected along with degree.
01-20-2015, 01:49 PM
#93
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Also accurate, but with a relatively small International Wide body operation (15 jets or so ?). Each of the THREE sides will have to choose their considerations of others and each side WILL have to propose what they believe to a fair and equitable integration model.
Hopefully, the final ISL will preserve pre-merger career expectations with as little undue complexity as possible.
Hopefully, the final ISL will preserve pre-merger career expectations with as little undue complexity as possible.
01-20-2015, 01:50 PM
#94
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I'm not "completely discounting" anything, I just question the certainty with which OTHERS apparently operate under. I've said the Nic is within the realm of possibility, yet you talk as if it's absolute certainty. If anyone is discounting things, it's those who are absolutely certain what factors will weigh how much in the minds of the arbitrators. An example of that is your clinging to life preservers like "single corporate control" or "the new Nicolau" to float your boat of certainties.
I think you've wound yourself up into convincing yourself your perception is the only certainty in this SLI because to consider them not is simply too traumatic.
I think you've wound yourself up into convincing yourself your perception is the only certainty in this SLI because to consider them not is simply too traumatic.
01-20-2015, 02:06 PM
#95
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This is just bantering my friend, discussing possibilities of this sli. I believe it will be the Nic or better for how usairways pilots are ordered amongst themselves, I also believe the LAA pilots will do very, very well with the mess the east caused at usairways used against us.
Could you explain what you believe to be better then the Nic is as far as the ordering of US Airways pilots and why ?
This I gotta hear.
01-20-2015, 02:19 PM
#96
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Position: A320 CA
Posts: 669
Apples and Oranges. I suppose the ex-TWA pilots could say the same thing. Desired career expectations are not the same as actual career expectations. One is hypothetical and the other is based on reality. The reality is that at the time of merger, there were 3 sets of pilot groups each with a reasonably quantifiable career expectation based on their carriers pre-merger situation and thus THEIR pre-merger expectations. For example, at merger minus one day, what were America West pilots REALISTIC International Group IV expectations ?
That is one of the aspects of the SLI the arbitrators will have to evaluate.
That is one of the aspects of the SLI the arbitrators will have to evaluate.
OK, now you're suggesting there are 4 groups? East, West, 3rd List, and AA? You're saying prior to the AW/US merger the most junior West pilot (O'Dell) had no reasonable expectation of ever flying a wide body so he should be treated as such moving forward...BUT, the 16 new-hires in Phoenix that are junior to him DID have the expectation because those individuals got hired at the NEW USAir, a company with widebodies and they should able to bid widebodies?
I give you slack because you're an Eagle guy...but come on. How does that make ANY sense?
01-20-2015, 02:32 PM
#97
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Wait..What?
OK, now you're suggesting there are 4 groups? East, West, 3rd List, and AA? You're saying prior to the AW/US merger the most junior West pilot (O'Dell) had no reasonable expectation of ever flying a wide body so he should be treated as such moving forward...BUT, the 16 new-hires in Phoenix that are junior to him DID have the expectation because those individuals got hired at the NEW USAir, a company with widebodies and they should able to bid widebodies?
I give you slack because you're an Eagle guy...but come on. How does that make ANY sense?
OK, now you're suggesting there are 4 groups? East, West, 3rd List, and AA? You're saying prior to the AW/US merger the most junior West pilot (O'Dell) had no reasonable expectation of ever flying a wide body so he should be treated as such moving forward...BUT, the 16 new-hires in Phoenix that are junior to him DID have the expectation because those individuals got hired at the NEW USAir, a company with widebodies and they should able to bid widebodies?
I give you slack because you're an Eagle guy...but come on. How does that make ANY sense?
There are three groups, but I'm confused as to what you are saying I'M saying and you're saying there are 16 junior West pilots in PHX that have access to East Widebody flying ?
If that's the situation, why doesn't everyone senior to those 16 at the West also have wide body International flying expectations by virtue of pre-merger bidding abilities ? Some West new-hires were placed at the East, I understand and must they return to the West once vacancies open or can they just stay at the East in perpetuity with only West seniority recognition and listing ?
I'm sorry, but I'm confused as to both what you are saying and what you THINK I'm saying.
01-20-2015, 02:45 PM
#98
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First of all, I'm not familiar with the "New USAir". Could you explain what that is ?
There are three groups, but I'm confused as to what you are saying I'M saying and you're saying there are 16 junior West pilots in PHX that have access to East Widebody flying ?
If that's the situation, why doesn't everyone senior to those 16 at the West also have wide body International flying expectations by virtue of pre-merger bidding abilities ? Some West new-hires were placed at the East, I understand and must they return to the West once vacancies open or can they just stay at the East in perpetuity with only West seniority recognition and listing ?
I'm sorry, but I'm confused as to both what you are saying and what you THINK I'm saying.
There are three groups, but I'm confused as to what you are saying I'M saying and you're saying there are 16 junior West pilots in PHX that have access to East Widebody flying ?
If that's the situation, why doesn't everyone senior to those 16 at the West also have wide body International flying expectations by virtue of pre-merger bidding abilities ? Some West new-hires were placed at the East, I understand and must they return to the West once vacancies open or can they just stay at the East in perpetuity with only West seniority recognition and listing ?
I'm sorry, but I'm confused as to both what you are saying and what you THINK I'm saying.
01-20-2015, 03:04 PM
#99
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Posts: 8,350
I understand some were furloughed from the West and rehired on the East, yes ? If correct, did these pilots transfer their seniority rights when transitioning ?
The premise is there are two lists at U, hence two committees. Again, I'm simply saying that this will be one of the situations confronted.
01-20-2015, 03:04 PM
#100
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