AAL submits proposal
11-12-2014, 09:20 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Which is exactly what Kirby is counting on.
This proposal is nothing but a bum's rush to get the older folks to bite on one more substandard pay raise, before they run out of time to retirement; and, more importantly for management, before Delta gets a much bigger pay raise next year.
Every older pilot I talk with says they voted Yes on the MOU "because I needed the money". (And then in the same breath, they complain about not getting any profit sharing, which they voted to give up in that same MOU.)
Hey, at least they admit it this time. Try finding somebody who voted Yes on LOA 93.
That 75% Yes vote on the MOU was a signal to management that the pilot group will vote for anything that includes a pay raise. (And the only reason the MOU rates are as high as they are, albeit still substandard, was to sweeten the pot for the LAA pilots. The LUS pilots alone would have settled for a lot less.)
The general mood among the over- and almost-60's now is that they want every dime they can get in their last few years, the rest of the contract be damned. Kirby could hide 2,000 more 170-seat RJ's in the back of the proposal. Most pilots won't read past the page with the new pay scales on it.
And the ones who do read further will vote Yes anyway.
Because not only do they want the money, and want it now; but with regard to scope, not only is there the "it doesn't affect me" factor, but worse, there is the attitude of, "Why should I give up money for scope, to help the younger guys who went straight from Humpty-Diddle to 90-seat RJ jobs, flying all our out-sourced former routes for 16K a year, stagnating my career, and who are now going to have the 'Golden Career' that I never had?".
So it would appear that the only way to keep this turd from being shoved down your throat is for the APA BOD to keep it out of the hands of the "Let My Daddy Vote" crowd.
This proposal is nothing but a bum's rush to get the older folks to bite on one more substandard pay raise, before they run out of time to retirement; and, more importantly for management, before Delta gets a much bigger pay raise next year.
Every older pilot I talk with says they voted Yes on the MOU "because I needed the money". (And then in the same breath, they complain about not getting any profit sharing, which they voted to give up in that same MOU.)
Hey, at least they admit it this time. Try finding somebody who voted Yes on LOA 93.
That 75% Yes vote on the MOU was a signal to management that the pilot group will vote for anything that includes a pay raise. (And the only reason the MOU rates are as high as they are, albeit still substandard, was to sweeten the pot for the LAA pilots. The LUS pilots alone would have settled for a lot less.)
The general mood among the over- and almost-60's now is that they want every dime they can get in their last few years, the rest of the contract be damned. Kirby could hide 2,000 more 170-seat RJ's in the back of the proposal. Most pilots won't read past the page with the new pay scales on it.
And the ones who do read further will vote Yes anyway.
Because not only do they want the money, and want it now; but with regard to scope, not only is there the "it doesn't affect me" factor, but worse, there is the attitude of, "Why should I give up money for scope, to help the younger guys who went straight from Humpty-Diddle to 90-seat RJ jobs, flying all our out-sourced former routes for 16K a year, stagnating my career, and who are now going to have the 'Golden Career' that I never had?".
So it would appear that the only way to keep this turd from being shoved down your throat is for the APA BOD to keep it out of the hands of the "Let My Daddy Vote" crowd.
Last edited by justjack; 11-12-2014 at 09:36 AM.
11-12-2014, 09:22 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Pitot heat, what's to eat?
Posts: 392
No need to bicker over other details in the proposal, as they have not been published yet. I based my opinion on everything else remaining status quo. Keep in mind that whatever TA the union puts forth will be way better than what we can expect in arbitration per the MOU. The MOU is what is really screwing us. We are in a corner.
As far as the 117 thing, what does HBT stand for?
As far as the 117 thing, what does HBT stand for?
11-12-2014, 09:33 AM
#83
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,992
This is not true. The MOU is strong in many areas and includes industry standard pay in 2016. It is very easy for a TA to be worse than an arbitrated JCBA. We have yet to see the details, though. History has taught us that scope is the single most important thing in a major airline contract. The second most important thing is work rules. Hourly pay is third. I think management knows this and mucking around with scope is just a tactic to get everybody riled up and distracted from the sub-par work rules they intend to try to ram through in exchange for "giving in" and "awarding" the scope and pay we already have.
I really hope AA passes DAL compensation by as much as possible, but keep in mind our profit sharing is huge. This year most people are looking at the equivalent of two months pay.
As a 737 FO my PS will be over $20K this year.
If you don't get PS be sure to at least use it to drive up your hourly rates.
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 11-12-2014 at 11:06 AM.
11-12-2014, 09:37 AM
#84
Unfaithfully yours, Hank
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: All
Posts: 222
75% is the number for TOTAL regional feed.
11-12-2014, 10:00 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 159
Texas,
If you are an APA member, go onto the website and the negotiations tab. Then you can click on the different parts that have posted. This is nothing but a land grab by Dougweiser and little Scotty. They were trying to sound really nice in saying that they have taken the 5 seats off the table, but it really disengenuous of them. They want us to pay a 40% excise tax on our healthcare! This is a result of Obummer Care. The expanding of the RJ's is pure BS! With the limits they are proposing, AAL would have 920 RJ's at their disposal! Which is about the size of the mainline! The devil is in the details, and if this is what they think of us, get ready for a rough holiday season!
If you are an APA member, go onto the website and the negotiations tab. Then you can click on the different parts that have posted. This is nothing but a land grab by Dougweiser and little Scotty. They were trying to sound really nice in saying that they have taken the 5 seats off the table, but it really disengenuous of them. They want us to pay a 40% excise tax on our healthcare! This is a result of Obummer Care. The expanding of the RJ's is pure BS! With the limits they are proposing, AAL would have 920 RJ's at their disposal! Which is about the size of the mainline! The devil is in the details, and if this is what they think of us, get ready for a rough holiday season!
11-12-2014, 10:02 AM
#88
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 36
"Why should I give up money for scope, to help the younger guys who went straight from Humpty-Diddle to 90-seat RJ jobs, flying all our out-sourced former routes for 16K a year, stagnating my career, and who are now going to have the 'Golden Career' that I never had?".
11-12-2014, 10:12 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
AA is gonna long for the days of Tom Horton, just like East guys wish they still had the good old days of Stephen Wolf.
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