shiznit

Ten has good intentions, please forgive his poorly thought out comment. He is apparently unaware that you face a similar problem as the FA's in that if you don't settle on a negotiated agreement then you will end up in binding arbitration with a much lower ceiling in terms of improvements. You really will have little to no say at that point.

You guys have a Hobson's choice between more seats or more airframes outsourced at the bottom. You also need to close read the top end WB intl. Codeshare-JV-foreign owership scope.... That will stagnate you longer than 100 RJ's could ever dream of. Be careful!

Don't be mesmerized by pay rates (I think the AA guys here get it), the overall value in the contract is way more important.

Route66

Great attitude for a commuter pilot. You'll fit right in at Spirit.

Route66

You obviously DON'T fly for American. If our pilots used reason like that I'd be a senior 777 Captain by now. Very well said.

sailingfun

Delta does not exchange openers until next April.

biigD

Dumb question, but can an arbitrated award increase the number of regional airframes allowed?

Al Czervik

Nope.

Filler.

Al Czervik

Big time NO vote here. Not even in the ballpark parker.

biigD

If that's the case, then I don't need to dig any deeper. Let's go to arbitration.

teddyballgame

Which is exactly what Kirby is counting on.

This proposal is nothing but a bum's rush to get the older folks to bite on one more substandard pay raise, before they run out of time to retirement; and, more importantly for management, before Delta gets a much bigger pay raise next year.

Every older pilot I talk with says they voted Yes on the MOU "because I needed the money". (And then in the same breath, they complain about not getting any profit sharing, which they voted to give up in that same MOU.)

Hey, at least they admit it this time. Try finding somebody who voted Yes on LOA 93.

That 75% Yes vote on the MOU was a signal to management that the pilot group will vote for anything that includes a pay raise. (And the only reason the MOU rates are as high as they are, albeit still substandard, was to sweeten the pot for the LAA pilots. The LUS pilots alone would have settled for a lot less.)

The general mood among the over- and almost-60's now is that they want every dime they can get in their last few years, the rest of the contract be damned. Kirby could hide 2,000 more 170-seat RJ's in the back of the proposal. Most pilots won't read past the page with the new pay scales on it.

And the ones who do read further will vote Yes anyway.

Because not only do they want the money, and want it now; but with regard to scope, not only is there the "it doesn't affect me" factor, but worse, there is the attitude of, "Why should I give up money for scope, to help the younger guys who went straight from Humpty-Diddle to 90-seat RJ jobs, flying all our out-sourced former routes for 16K a year, stagnating my career, and who are now going to have the 'Golden Career' that I never had?".

So it would appear that the only way to keep this turd from being shoved down your throat is for the APA BOD to keep it out of the hands of the "Let My Daddy Vote" crowd.

eaglefly

My comment was to the guy getting his kicks here thinking this forum is his favorite old road.