AAL submits proposal
11-23-2014, 07:25 AM
#281
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
As for the SLI hijack now in progress, again LOS is but one component of an SLI and to what weight this component will have is undetermined. It was one of 3 chosen in the revised ALPA merger policy (ironically due to the U/AWA disaster), but isn't required in this SLI. It may be adopted and X weight placed on it, but that will be decided in the next fracas after APA and Parker agree to JCBA terms.
LOS has traditionally ALWAYS been the CONTROLLING component in the history of seniority lists.
It will be DECIDED if those affected the worst by it are not large in numbers and won't cross a picket line as a result of it when future negotiations fail.
History has proven that the number needed to break a strike is around 30%. The Continental strike and PHI in the gulf are good examples of that number.
The strength of unions today have waned dramatically after deregulation and the bad name we get from the public sector government unions.
They are causing people and the Supreme Court to move against the labor union movement and with a Republican Congress along with the dissatisfaction the labor unions have with the present administration I would not be surprised that statutory changes will be in order when the next big labor strike occurs.
11-23-2014, 07:28 AM
#282
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Seniority lists are NOT engraved in stone and it seems that CHANGING them without logical historical basis is problematic for labor.
You measure in SAE and I measure in metric. Choose your poison.
11-23-2014, 07:34 AM
#284
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
This is a pilot argument that most other unions don't conform to.
LOS has traditionally ALWAYS been the CONTROLLING component in the history of seniority lists.
It will be DECIDED if those affected the worst by it are not large in numbers and won't cross a picket line as a result of it when future negotiations fail.
History has proven that the number needed to break a strike is around 30%. The Continental strike and PHI in the gulf are good examples of that number.
The strength of unions today have waned dramatically after deregulation and the bad name we get from the public sector government unions.
They are causing people and the Supreme Court to move against the labor union movement and with a Republican Congress along with the dissatisfaction the labor unions have with the present administration I would not be surprised that statutory changes will be in order when the next big labor strike occurs.
LOS has traditionally ALWAYS been the CONTROLLING component in the history of seniority lists.
It will be DECIDED if those affected the worst by it are not large in numbers and won't cross a picket line as a result of it when future negotiations fail.
History has proven that the number needed to break a strike is around 30%. The Continental strike and PHI in the gulf are good examples of that number.
The strength of unions today have waned dramatically after deregulation and the bad name we get from the public sector government unions.
They are causing people and the Supreme Court to move against the labor union movement and with a Republican Congress along with the dissatisfaction the labor unions have with the present administration I would not be surprised that statutory changes will be in order when the next big labor strike occurs.
11-23-2014, 07:51 AM
#285
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
11-23-2014, 09:00 AM
#287
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 1,353
What you fail to accept is the reality that it doesn't matter what ALPA merger policy WAS if you simply could NOT solidify it with a vote. Even ALPA knew that, tried to explain it to you, and in fact changed not only their merger policy but solidified it but putting the SLI arbitration into the CBA effectuating the outcome AFTER the everything lee in the CBA is in effect?
WD at AWA
11-23-2014, 09:09 AM
#288
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Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Well we never got there now did we? See in the real world there is an (insert legal here)understanding about how deals are made and followed. Now I completely understand your position and the fact that you have convinced yourself that it was the right way to do things. Its a waste of time to attempt to convince you otherwise. The fact of the matter is we never got to that vote because the east MEC squawked while certain members of that very same east MEC helped give rise to usapa. The whole thing was completely underhanded but it certainly served its purpose now didn't it? The move made it possible so that we have exactly what we have now and that is complete and utter chaos. It is what it is and without a doubt in my mind the effects will last a lifetime.
WD at AWA
WD at AWA
But No really, I agree with you!
11-23-2014, 09:27 AM
#289
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Well we never got there now did we? See in the real world there is an understanding about how deals are made and followed. Now I completely understand your position and the fact that you have convinced yourself that it was the right way to do things. Its a waste of time to attempt to convince you otherwise. The fact of the matter is we never got to that vote because the east MEC squawked while certain members of that very same east MEC helped give rise to usapa. The whole thing was completely underhanded but it certainly served its purpose now didn't it? The move made it possible so that we have exactly what we have now and that is complete and utter chaos. It is what it is and without a doubt in my mind the effects will last a lifetime.
WD at AWA
WD at AWA
If the PAB doesn't give the West pilots a seat at the table are you (personally) and the whole West contingent willing to call it finished and all 100% of you will walk lock step with the APA in 2019 if they call for a strike?
If the PAB DOES give the West participant status but the West gets LOS in the SLI arbitration will you (personally) and the whole West contingent walk in lock step with the APA in 2019 if they call for a strike?
I know what you say what you will or will not do but I believe I know the answer and after 10 years of this stuff I'm prepared with the knowledge that you won't have the APA's back.
You have a belief issue. I have a trust issue. And therein lies the crux of the whole union matter at least for me.
11-23-2014, 11:03 AM
#290
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 1,353
Let me ask you a few questions since we seem to be on some form of reasonable discussion.
If the PAB doesn't give the West pilots a seat at the table are you (personally) and the whole West contingent willing to call it finished and all 100% of you will walk lock step with the APA in 2019 if they call for a strike?
This question can not be answered by any one individual because there is as you know an entity that fights for the implementation of that arbitrated list. Now if you ask will there continue to be a fight absent a legal means to justify it? I doubt it.
If the PAB DOES give the West participant status but the West gets LOS in the SLI arbitration will you (personally) and the whole West contingent walk in lock step with the APA in 2019 if they call for a strike?
I tend to think that if a strike is called for at that time, there will be no pilots anywhere on the property that will entertain crossing that picket line.
I know what you say what you will or will not do but I believe I know the answer and after 10 years of this stuff I'm prepared with the knowledge that you won't have the APA's back.
You have a belief issue. I have a trust issue. And therein lies the crux of the whole union matter at least for me.
If the PAB doesn't give the West pilots a seat at the table are you (personally) and the whole West contingent willing to call it finished and all 100% of you will walk lock step with the APA in 2019 if they call for a strike?
This question can not be answered by any one individual because there is as you know an entity that fights for the implementation of that arbitrated list. Now if you ask will there continue to be a fight absent a legal means to justify it? I doubt it.
If the PAB DOES give the West participant status but the West gets LOS in the SLI arbitration will you (personally) and the whole West contingent walk in lock step with the APA in 2019 if they call for a strike?
I tend to think that if a strike is called for at that time, there will be no pilots anywhere on the property that will entertain crossing that picket line.
I know what you say what you will or will not do but I believe I know the answer and after 10 years of this stuff I'm prepared with the knowledge that you won't have the APA's back.
You have a belief issue. I have a trust issue. And therein lies the crux of the whole union matter at least for me.
WD at AWA
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