justjack

It's no insult. I don't cut my own hair or do my own colonoscopy. Sometimes you've just got to go to experts.

Surprise

Be creative. We could have rolling strikes. Shut down a different hub every day. Or don't fly on Tuesdays and Fridays. Or don't fly flights with odd numbers. Or don't fly after 2pm. Or whatever. We don't have to completely shut down to make it hurt. We just need the legal ability to do so get some God-honest leverage.

DrivinTheDash

They don't need to pity us, they don't need to change any rules or pay. The contract coming out of arbitration would be better than the company's proposal for one reason: scope. No matter what the company asks for, no matter what evidence they present, the arbitrators are specifically forbidden by the MTA from changing the scope of the contract. I, and I believe the vast majority of pilots at the new AA, will gladly wait until 2016 for my raise, and until the next section 6 for all of the other improvements we want to see, if that's the only way to preserve scope.

Spoiler

the end game is to bust APA and ALPA which they now have the money to do. You can put it off but the balance sheet gets stronger every day.

Route66

Oh I get it. Morally JUSTIFIABLE indignation? Oh, I am a pilot. Oh, and I just saw the latest offer from the company. Oh, and I DID crunch the numbers. I don't care what the management from the other airlines think. They don't run the company I work for.

I had a Southwest pilot on the jumpsuit the other day. They are not happy with their management, FYI. (United isn't having a lovefest with theirs, either).

If you are a pilot here, YOU DON'T GET IT. Because the "company" doesn't come down from their office and lick the ground you walk on you have a "morally JUSTIFIED indignation" legal case. The package the company offered is a GREAT package. It's sad to see the same ole union mentality used at APA that is used at ALPA. In all my years as a pilot I have NEVER seen pilots use reason and logic in their "business" analysis of their competitive situation. MAINLY because they compete with each other.

Go ahead and use that justification in your "jihadi crusade". You'll be alone.

Route66

You are four years plus away from any LEGAL strike here at the New American, if and when all the RLA procedures are played out. A lot can change in that time frame. How about focusing on the reality of the here and now, not some pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking where all pilots everywhere will hold hands, teach the world to sing in perfect harmony and drink Coke (maybe a few would make more sense if they just snorted it.)

TRZ06

So there you have it, a GREAT package! I am by no means an extremist. I have a hard time separating my professional pride from my company pride, but it can and has to be done. I lost the latter a long time ago so it only can be improved at this point. Look, I don't fault anyone for judging whether this offer is good enough to accept, but to classify it as a GREAT package is a stretch to say the least.
Why AA would not go toe to toe with Delta when we are hauling in the cash is beyond me. As I have said before, Parker is no different from the management we have had before. Weak leadership, no foresight, a real bean counter. Sad, because we will never know what could have been if we all worked together. For many decades now, American Airlines has been synonymous with mediocrity. If we do survive, and we probably will, expect it to be the bottom of the majors service wise. You can put lipstick on a pig, but...

Route66

OK. I'll concede and accept your premise that it isn't a Great package.

Here is WHY in a nutshell: pilots are doing the job ALREADY for less now and in Arbitration will STILL be doing the job for less until 2019. I've looked at the APA chart pay numbers jump DRAMATICALLY and waiting for the future what you will get NOW makes a lot more sense. As far as the scope clause is concerned, a jump from 65 to 70 (for that matter a jump from 76 to 81) is irrelevant considering the orders for new aircraft we have now as well as what is already codified into the CBA E-190/195 and CS aircraft under groups 1 and 2. In short, the scope issue was a lost cause when the pilots first allowed the companies to "code-share" and fly the company colors under contract years ago. That ship has sailed and there is no putting it back in drydock.

You'll get your chance to renegotiate in 2020.

The APA-USAPA pilots are in a place THEY put themselves into because of years of US Airways and American Bankruptcies and mergers with different groups who think they contributed more to THEIR companies bottom line than the others did. That is a complete crock. They had NO bargaining power other than in the courts and they had NO plan ahead of time to counter it. The same has proven true today. The APA was UNPREPARED for the offer the company has placed on the table and that is a simple FACT. They have never been and never will be prepared for future contingencies or scenarios where the company is on the lower rung of the ladder.

That idea is the reality pilots will have to deal with. BTW, I have NEVER separated my professional pride with my company pride. Do your job, do it well, DO IT PROFESSIONALLY, look the part and you'll EARN the respect you deserve. You're all welcome to "dig on me here" but when I go to work I am respected for who I am and what I do and I take pride in that everyday.

Saabs

Saabless

Will this go to a pilot vote? Or most likely APA countering a few things and accepting or rejecting it on their own?