DarinFred

If our 190's paid close to what even Jet Blue pays, I bet people would bid them.

R57 relay

Probably, but it doesn't. The APA didn't hold the company's feet to the fire on that. So probably no matter what, it won't pay what jetBlue does. Anyone want to give up part of their salary to make that happen?

EMBFlyer

I generally like what you have to say and I consider you to be a level-headed, concise thinker. Please don't tell me that you think it's ok to give them the 5 seats. If we do that, I fear it's just the beginning. That begs the question of "When will it stop?" No, we need to hold the line on scope!

flygirl556

If they weren't only based in Philthy, I bet people would bid them.

R57 relay

I'm not saying that, I'm just putting out the questions that are going through my head, that I bet are going through certain other people's heads.

Kirby sold it well, and as usual, there is some truth to what he is saying. The RJ genie isn't going back in the bottle and we aren't going back to the days that we flew 727s into AVL, FAY and ILM. Back in the day when other airlines couldn't serve those markets with DC-9 or larger, we had the market to ourselves and the yield covered them. With the advent of the RJ, that is no longer the case. Just about every airline can cover every market, and a departure basis, they are cheaper to run. So they are here to stay, and I think there is a size that will not migrate back to the mainline because there are many reasons they are cheaper at the regional, with pilot pay being a small one.

BUT, and it's a big but-I don't trust them. Kirby says "it's just 5 seats...will bring in more people for the mainline..." All true, but will the extra 5 seats make them close enough to the 190 to get rid of them? Will the company live with a 90 to 124 seat gap? Does it matter for 20 aircraft out of 1500? Those are the question the APA has to ask and answer.

After watching the crew news session, I'm guessing the APA might go for it. If you feel strongly, you better tell them what you think. I don't know how that will go, but I would put money on a bet that you will never see aircraft smaller than the 190 on the property.

I've seen this conversation about scope go on for years. I've heard the same arguments, only to see the unions give more and more. As I said, we held the line in 2001, until 9/11.

R57 relay

It would help, but there are a bunch of new hires sitting on reserve in PHL that would get a pay raise if they bid it and they don't. I think a big part of it is that a lot of the folks we are hiring have done that type of flying for years and want a break from it. But the fact is, we had 12 captain positions go unbid on the airplane. When have you ever heard of that at a major airline? Most guys I fly with want nothing to do with it. Don't you think the company will bring that up to the APA?

Again, just throwing stuff out there to think about, especially when people talk about bringing smaller ones back to the mainline. Maybe someone has some out of the box thinking on this one.

ackattacker

I really don't think it has much to do with "not liking the airplane". It always comes down to pay and quality of life. Beyond year 2, the pay difference between E190 Captain and A320 F/O isn't enough to justify going from blockholder to reserve and locking yourself into a 2 year seat lock. Guys look at the fact that 3 year guys can hold A330 F/O, which pays more, and (wisely IMHO) decide that E190 doesn't make sense.

This is a byproduct basically of the too low E190 rates and the rapid movement. PHL doesn't help, either.

R57 relay

Right, but none of that will change if we brought the 175s in house. And if they got rid of 319s it would be worse.

I've heard the same arguments since I was a captain on the original RJ, the F-28. Everybody wants them here, few want to fly them after year 1. Although we never had F-28 captain bids go unfilled.

Certainly most guys that are flying the 175 and smaller at the regionals would rather fly them on the mainline, but that's just like new hire pay, there is no one to advocate for them. And when they get here they would rather do something else.

Again, I'm not advocating relaxing scope. I'm just trying to read the tea leaves and say that if you feel very strongly about it, you better let your reps know. I think we are headed for a situation like the F/As have now. "Take this great offer, with a little bitter medicine, or we send it to the arbitrator who can't give you as much." We need to decide what is important to us, and often pilots are a little short sighted.

fisherman

Please don't justify giving up any scope. If AAG can't get people to bid the E190 because they don't pay enough, then it is AAG's job to fix that problem by paying more money! It is not your job to "solve" the problem.

Giving away more scope will never solve anything; it would just make things much worse!

R57 relay

Easy to say, not easy to do. Are you an AA or US pilot? Do you know the process we are going through with the JCBA? If it gets sent to an arbitrator, it is our problem and it would behoove us to try and come up with a solution that helps us all.