Nic ...
09-10-2014, 11:23 AM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
I agree in principle that time put in with a company should be honored. I had a friend from ground school who was hired at Piedmont just before they announced the merger with USAir in 1989. He got hired at a bustling airline that was doing well, and expected to have a decent career.
Fast forward to today, and he's been an FO his entire career and furloughed twice. He was significantly below the "new guy" at AWA, and he felt that Nicolau basically threw out his entire career and all the work he put in towards the airline, and I can fully understand how he feels.
At the same time, I can understand how some at AWA were resentful that a "deal" that was supposedly made was then not implemented, through whatever legal maneuvering that was done. I can understand from their perspective that they feel cheated and it "stalled" their careers, and in fact one guy lamented in another board how USAPA "destroyed" his career. But comparing the two, it's hard to say the Nic would have been fair from the perspective of the ex-Piedmont guy as well.
I think everyone should just take a step back and hope for a much better do-over. This is our chance to "make it right" and put the pieces back together. That's my opinion, from an ex-military guy who wasn't on either side during the past drama...
Fast forward to today, and he's been an FO his entire career and furloughed twice. He was significantly below the "new guy" at AWA, and he felt that Nicolau basically threw out his entire career and all the work he put in towards the airline, and I can fully understand how he feels.
At the same time, I can understand how some at AWA were resentful that a "deal" that was supposedly made was then not implemented, through whatever legal maneuvering that was done. I can understand from their perspective that they feel cheated and it "stalled" their careers, and in fact one guy lamented in another board how USAPA "destroyed" his career. But comparing the two, it's hard to say the Nic would have been fair from the perspective of the ex-Piedmont guy as well.
I think everyone should just take a step back and hope for a much better do-over. This is our chance to "make it right" and put the pieces back together. That's my opinion, from an ex-military guy who wasn't on either side during the past drama...
One problem some people have, especially those outside the fight, is looking at one aspect of this and coming to false conclusions. Like "A deal is a deal!" Well, as FG says above, the first agreement was for separate ops until a JCBA, which never happened.
In the end we compromised. An arbitration panel will decide about a west committee and if the west gets one I assume they will propose the Nicolau award as the starting point and an arbitration panel will decide on that. time to accept it and move on.
09-10-2014, 11:24 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 375
I agree in principle that time put in with a company should be honored. I had a friend from ground school who was hired at Piedmont just before they announced the merger with USAir in 1989. He got hired at a bustling airline that was doing well, and expected to have a decent career.
Fast forward to today, and he's been an FO his entire career and furloughed twice. He was significantly below the "new guy" at AWA, and he felt that Nicolau basically threw out his entire career and all the work he put in towards the airline, and I can fully understand how he feels.
At the same time, I can understand how some at AWA were resentful that a "deal" that was supposedly made was then not implemented, through whatever legal maneuvering that was done. I can understand from their perspective that they feel cheated and it "stalled" their careers, and in fact one guy lamented in another board how USAPA "destroyed" his career. But comparing the two, it's hard to say the Nic would have been fair from the perspective of the ex-Piedmont guy as well.
I think everyone should just take a step back and hope for a much better do-over. This is our chance to "make it right" and put the pieces back together. That's my opinion, from an ex-military guy who wasn't on either side during the past drama...
Fast forward to today, and he's been an FO his entire career and furloughed twice. He was significantly below the "new guy" at AWA, and he felt that Nicolau basically threw out his entire career and all the work he put in towards the airline, and I can fully understand how he feels.
At the same time, I can understand how some at AWA were resentful that a "deal" that was supposedly made was then not implemented, through whatever legal maneuvering that was done. I can understand from their perspective that they feel cheated and it "stalled" their careers, and in fact one guy lamented in another board how USAPA "destroyed" his career. But comparing the two, it's hard to say the Nic would have been fair from the perspective of the ex-Piedmont guy as well.
I think everyone should just take a step back and hope for a much better do-over. This is our chance to "make it right" and put the pieces back together. That's my opinion, from an ex-military guy who wasn't on either side during the past drama...
09-10-2014, 12:56 PM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 596
Agree 100%. Unfortunatly, for the West, it will never be made right. At this point even if the the NIC were implemented tomorrow, it would still never be made right in their view. Many of them, especially the extremists out there, will carry their hatred and bad attitudes for the rest of their career. As a fairly new guy I always smile and say hi to everyone. I stopped doing that out in PHX or if I see one of those guys with their $700 tie. I always get snubbed anyway even though its obvious I wasn't hear when all that went down. Personally, I could care less about them or anyone who goes out of their way to make this job more difficult than it really needs to be.
09-10-2014, 01:13 PM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
I commute on west flown metal all the time and have yet to experience any negativity towards me - even from the guys with the tie. Guess I've been lucky!
Regardless, I'm a kill-em-with-kindness kind of guy anyway. I'm not going to let some ****ed off dude ruin my day.
Regardless, I'm a kill-em-with-kindness kind of guy anyway. I'm not going to let some ****ed off dude ruin my day.
09-10-2014, 01:46 PM
#115
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
Nic ...
West pilots are in a frustrating position. They like the East chose a long hard road, but nothing has been decided yet. Hopefully we see an SLI that benefits all parties equally.
09-10-2014, 03:39 PM
#116
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Ah man, revisionist history already starting? Did you boys forget the damage usapa has caused not only the west but every east pilot? You guys forget 10 + years of loa 93? The east pilots damaged everyone on this property and that should never be forgotten.
09-10-2014, 03:39 PM
#117
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
I agree in principle that time put in with a company should be honored. I had a friend from ground school who was hired at Piedmont just before they announced the merger with USAir in 1989. He got hired at a bustling airline that was doing well, and expected to have a decent career.
Fast forward to today, and he's been an FO his entire career and furloughed twice. He was significantly below the "new guy" at AWA, and he felt that Nicolau basically threw out his entire career and all the work he put in towards the airline, and I can fully understand how he feels.
At the same time, I can understand how some at AWA were resentful that a "deal" that was supposedly made was then not implemented, through whatever legal maneuvering that was done. I can understand from their perspective that they feel cheated and it "stalled" their careers, and in fact one guy lamented in another board how USAPA "destroyed" his career. But comparing the two, it's hard to say the Nic would have been fair from the perspective of the ex-Piedmont guy as well.
I think everyone should just take a step back and hope for a much better do-over. This is our chance to "make it right" and put the pieces back together. That's my opinion, from an ex-military guy who wasn't on either side during the past drama...
Fast forward to today, and he's been an FO his entire career and furloughed twice. He was significantly below the "new guy" at AWA, and he felt that Nicolau basically threw out his entire career and all the work he put in towards the airline, and I can fully understand how he feels.
At the same time, I can understand how some at AWA were resentful that a "deal" that was supposedly made was then not implemented, through whatever legal maneuvering that was done. I can understand from their perspective that they feel cheated and it "stalled" their careers, and in fact one guy lamented in another board how USAPA "destroyed" his career. But comparing the two, it's hard to say the Nic would have been fair from the perspective of the ex-Piedmont guy as well.
I think everyone should just take a step back and hope for a much better do-over. This is our chance to "make it right" and put the pieces back together. That's my opinion, from an ex-military guy who wasn't on either side during the past drama...
Just because they got purchased buy America West? well that wasn't their chance to "make everything right" with their career on the backs of the original America West Pilots...it's really that simple and about as objective as one can be.
Now there should have been fences in place for USAIR widebody flying AND international flying?....sure. But DOH integration is not fair and equitable as the Nic award indicated
Last edited by oncloud; 09-10-2014 at 04:21 PM.
09-10-2014, 04:10 PM
#118
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A330
Posts: 1,043
Houses there are so cheap.
09-10-2014, 04:15 PM
#119
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
I'm not sure if they caused and damage, or if they saved the airline from bankruptcy.
The VPs, and Directors at my last company told me for years that airways/AmWest was going out of business, and they honestly believed it.
We really need to consider moving forward at this point. There will be a ruling, and there won't be recourse beyond that.
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