TQ Nola

Not only do I think it's fair; every judge in the history of aviation (AFAIK, albeit given zero research or desire to research) also thinks it's fair.

There are guys senior to me who are still exercising their contractual right to defer, and I've been here (AA) 14 years. Do I think they should flow to the bottom? No.

Be as serious as you like; there's not even a ghost of a chance your particular sense of fairness will be used. Bookmark this post for reference.

ShyGuy

You should ask USAPA that question. Funny how this argument is being used now that it's AA and US. Back when the same thing in reverse was true for US Airways (carrier with pilot layoffs and carrier bankrupt twice) versus working for a carrier making a little money and moving up the seniority list (AWA).... well the Nic was "unfair"

Sliceback

Freeflyfreak - you're correct. Forgot about the Dec. class with the first 824 er's.

JumpersAway79

I don't think that today's circumstances should be held as a constant truth for ones 30 year career. I absolutely believe what you wrote above to be fair- they'll retire before you, and you will eventually get your block back. The term "career expectation" is a con in order to better one's own position to the detriment of another. The industry picture changes far too rapidly to have any expectation.......well, maybe there are a few things you should expect, or at least plan on. At least if you are wise, and then you should expect this:

1. ) You will take a paycut in your career.
2. ) You will be displaced.

Those that plan on this never exceed their means. They are also the ones that didn't hang themselves in the early 2000's and won't be manning the door at Wal-Mart post 65.

Also, before flinging poo in my direction in regard to what I have written above, please note that I am, indeed, a "Third List" pilot myself.

kingairip

Actually...there was an arbitrator that agrees with Texaspilot. I think his name was spelled N-i-c-o-l-a-u.

JumpersAway79

Where's the "Like" button???? You Sir, get it!

ShyGuy

The irony is rich here. Same could be said for AWA guys back in 2005, with their quick movement and upgrades versus US Airway's junior late '80s DOH Captains. Nicolau slotted them accordingly. How'd that work out? Nic slotted some year 2000+ DOH AWA guys with US guys hired in the early 90s. US East screamed bloody murder and rejected the Nic, threw out ALPA, and voted in USAPA to keep Nic off property. Now you want a favorable slotting against AA? How is this not the same situation as with AWA-US? It's the same thing and now you want the cake and eat it too.

Now that the table is turned, it's ironic to hear the change in tune that was the basis for establishing USAPA and kicking out the Nic award. Before the arbitrator looks at that he's going to be scratching his head when you present a East list and a West list. Career expectation cuts both ways. One could argue LOA93 would have continued until enough East retired to bring the numbers of AWA+US-newhires to outnumber original East. Maybe then they could have voted out USAPA.

The Drizzle

I don't see the irony or change in tune. Third listers aren't remotely the same as east pilots in terms of our merger thoughts.

ShyGuy

Good point. I should have figured those extreme views had to be a 3rd lister. Makes more sense now. Regardless, best of luck. I've been through binding arbitration SLI and wouldn't wish it upon anyone but this is what happens when pilots cannot agree on seniority. And when it comes to seniority all gloves come off. Everyone wants the highest position and/or the highest number compared to the other group guys.

kingairip

A little clarification here. Texaspilot (as am I) is a "third lister". IOW, he was hired after the merger. His thoughts and opinions had nothing to do with the great SLI food fight. So, there is no "table" being "turned" on Texaspilot.

But, there is some irony here...some guys here obviously think Texaspilot's assertion that furloughs should be stapled to the bottom of the list is preposterous. (I agree with them.) These same people, however, think it's horrible, HORRIBLE, that the "East" didn't embrace the Nic. THAT is rich.