CanoePilot

I agree but the united con merger proved that isn't the case.

Sliceback

AE flows are already on property w/seniority numbers.

Last furloughee was offered recall in May 2013. They have seniority numbers and LOS.

824 don't have seniority numbers. They'll get one when they get hired at AA. First 25(?) came across this month. They'll be in class with off the street new hires.

texaspilot76

All the furloughs have had an opportunity to return. It's their own fault for not coming back, therefore to the bottom of the list they should go.

Sliceback

Opinions are free. Lawsuits, arbitrations, etc, cost a lot of money. They disagree with you.

Saabs

Its their right to bypass. What ur suggesting is to reorder the AA Seniority list. That's a horrible thing.

bernouli

Uh oh.

Abcdefg

kingairip

Are you trolling? Or, are you being serious?

ackattacker

Not all "3rd listers" are in the same boat, but IMHO, general rule, most of the AA furloughs should be senior to any 3rd lister. I say this as a 3rd lister. Fair is fair.

Let's take two hypothetical 3rd listers... "Bob" was hired in early 2008. At the time he was hired, he didn't know if he was going to be assigned East or West. He just knew he was junior to everyone. But, he gets assigned East. In mid 2008, nearly right out of class, Bob gets furloughed. He gets recalled December 2010. He knows he's working for the lowest paid legacy carrier, but he also knows he can expect a lot of movement up the list due to retirements. His career expectations have nothing to do with AA.

In February 2013, AMR and LCC announce their intent to merge. At the time, Bob has been on property a total of not quite 3 years with an early 2008 DOH. He is holding A320 F/O Reserve but will be a blockholder soon. At the time, AA is actively recalling furloughs but hasn't recalled them all.

Bob could quite reasonably expect that a fair SLI would use a formula similar to DAL/NWA and UAL/CAL, which is a blend of LOS and relative position. Bob has a comfortable but low relative position and also not much LOS. He could probably expect that most of the AA furloughees would be senior to him due to their holding a similar position (Group II F/O) and having more LOS. Some of the AA furloughees may have less than 3 years LOS, and could be placed junior to Bob. But not many. The AA pilots in a similar position, just prior to the merger announcement, expected a similar (but not quite as meteoric) rapid advancement and had a better contract. Although Bob's relative position slides a bit, he maintains his current seat and gains a better contract as a result of the merger. Bob has not much to complain about (but that won't stop his *****ing). He's still going to advance rapidly and retire as a senior widebody Captain long after those AA guys have retired.

Another 3rd lister, "Joe" is hired in February 2013, just after the merger announcement. Joe's career expectations have everything to do with the "New AA". He knows he's most likely going to be an AA pilot with the AA contract and the AA fleet and retirements. He knows AA has some pilots still on furlough and he has no reasonable right to be senior to them. All furloughs are senior to him, and he gets slotted in with all other New Hires on both the AA and LCC side as strict DOH.

Freeflyfreak

Not quite correct.

The first 824 were in the 2nd class of December, after the merger closed.
There were 25 of them, no street new hires in that class. The beginning Jan class was 13 street new hires and 12 824 new hires.
End of Jan class I don't know about yet.

The 824 are all new hires after the merger.
You guys have much more to worry about than the 824.

We will be treated the same as any street hire taken after the merger.
Down to probation, and seniority by age in class, that is the bottom of all lists.
The only difference between us and a street new hire is no interview and no AA medical prior to hire.

texaspilot76

Serious as a heart attack.

You think that a pilot that is laid off from a carrier who is bankrupt has a good career expectation? Yet, a pilot who works for a carrier that is making record profits and is moving rapidly up the seniority list has a poor career expectation?

So, based on your assumption, the furloughed pilot from the bankrupt carrier should jump the list ahead of the pilots at the stable carrier and unseat them, and go from being out of a job to holding a block, and send the other pilot back to the bottom of the list on reserve. That's ridiculous. All of you cannot possibly believe that would be fair.