10 months to 190 Capt
01-28-2014, 01:45 PM
#231
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Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 131
Perhaps. But I would thing the only way out of this dispute between east and west is an arbitration. That would keep American out of it totally. Then when one list is finally decided between east and west maybe the integration can proceed unfettered.
01-28-2014, 01:52 PM
#232
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
We have a deal with the MOU-ratified by the majority of US pilots. A Federal judge said that contract was not a DFR. No need to have another arbitration. Would you be advocating a arbitration had Judge Silver ruled in your favor?
01-28-2014, 02:06 PM
#233
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
The following is why we cannot get a single list for USAirways:
None of the above mentioned east guys were furloughed and most had never been furloughed. The above figures do not count the east pilots that were furloughed in 2005 (date of merger and list used for the NIC)
Sad part is that we should have been able to come to the table years ago and find a middle of the road solution. But the east ALPA had some hard nosed DOH only types on the mec early on, and once the NIC award was published the west has refused to say anything except "NIC is it"
Stalemate.
None of the above mentioned east guys were furloughed and most had never been furloughed. The above figures do not count the east pilots that were furloughed in 2005 (date of merger and list used for the NIC)
Sad part is that we should have been able to come to the table years ago and find a middle of the road solution. But the east ALPA had some hard nosed DOH only types on the mec early on, and once the NIC award was published the west has refused to say anything except "NIC is it"
Stalemate.
One thing-Nic didn't use the seniority list from 2005. He used a cleaned up list from 2007. That had pros and cons for both sides. For the east is got rid of guys that had retired and moved some up. But, by 2007 the east had retired or returned about twice the hulls the west did. Even with that, the east had recalled approx 300 pilots. BUT, Nicolau didn't count them, they were the only group held to their 2005 status.
Too bad Nicolau didn't listen to Brucia.
01-28-2014, 02:23 PM
#234
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Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 131
Are you saying APA can just come up with their own list?
Besides, American didn't merge with America West. American merged with US Airways. Once US gets their list they can merge it into American. As an outsider, that is the most logical way of handling your problem. It keep APA totally out of the east and west dispute.
01-28-2014, 02:27 PM
#235
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Nobody will F with the MOU. Plenty will dance and pontificate about F-ing with the MOU, but no one will actually F with it. The threshold to prove breach of a contract is much lower than proving a DFR, and neither the company nor APA will actually F that up. In the course of negotiations they will threaten, bluff, and squeal, but they will follow the contract..... Just like Judge Silver threatened, bluffed, and squealed.... all the way up to where she followed the law and found the DFR claim to be without merit.
AOL will bluff, threaten, and squeal...and magnify same of others, all to increase the gravy train donations, but in the end it will be a three way via relative position, and everyone will claim "the other guys lost."
AOL will bluff, threaten, and squeal...and magnify same of others, all to increase the gravy train donations, but in the end it will be a three way via relative position, and everyone will claim "the other guys lost."
01-28-2014, 02:45 PM
#236
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
You are starting to figure it out. For APA to do something other than what is contained in the terms of the MOU... They must change the MOU... And they can do that via renegotiating the MOU, and getting it ratified by all the members.. Maybe even by 98%!!
And if they do that then a DFR suit will not prevail, as you have proven.
... And the Nic would survive all of those changes since the 2005 TA exactly how???
01-28-2014, 04:09 PM
#237
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Arbitrations are how disputes are handled. I have been through two civil disputes in my job and arbitration is how contract disputes are handled.
Are you saying APA can just come up with their own list?
Besides, American didn't merge with America West. American merged with US Airways. Once US gets their list they can merge it into American. As an outsider, that is the most logical way of handling your problem. It keep APA totally out of the east and west dispute.
Are you saying APA can just come up with their own list?
Besides, American didn't merge with America West. American merged with US Airways. Once US gets their list they can merge it into American. As an outsider, that is the most logical way of handling your problem. It keep APA totally out of the east and west dispute.
01-28-2014, 04:37 PM
#239
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Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 131
01-28-2014, 04:39 PM
#240
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Oh, that one. But, we did agree on a MOU that says we won't change the seniority listS in effect(that would be the east and west lists) except by the MB PROCESS. I have a copy of the MOU if you would like to read it.
I guess you didn't know that the west claimed that the abandonment of the Nic in the MOU was a failure of USAPA's DFR and sued in federal court. That court found that it wasn't a DFR and that USAPA had a legitimate union purpose for doing just that. Can I lead you to the various filings and rulings?
I guess you didn't know that the west claimed that the abandonment of the Nic in the MOU was a failure of USAPA's DFR and sued in federal court. That court found that it wasn't a DFR and that USAPA had a legitimate union purpose for doing just that. Can I lead you to the various filings and rulings?
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