10 months to 190 Capt
01-27-2014, 04:20 AM
#211
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 25
Latest East Bid
Not all the outcomes were good on the latest East Permanent Bid. There were a number of us displaced from AB320 Capt seats as B737 positions were eliminated and those pilots decided to come over to the "dark side". Probably happen again on the next bid as they continue to shrink that fleet.
01-27-2014, 06:51 AM
#212
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 405
Bottom 15 Captain A320 jobs ( DCA and PHL ) are all new so I'm guessing you did not want to commute?
A short term thing as the remaining 737 pilots seem to be hanging on till the bitter end in order to avoid that 'dark side' so the displacement effects are more pronounced.
Hopefully, the New American has a better training outlook than US Airways which seemed to go out of its way to send pilots through school.
A short term thing as the remaining 737 pilots seem to be hanging on till the bitter end in order to avoid that 'dark side' so the displacement effects are more pronounced.
Hopefully, the New American has a better training outlook than US Airways which seemed to go out of its way to send pilots through school.
01-27-2014, 08:45 AM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 737
Guys, please stop with the wild speculation. Not one single APA guy I've talked to (and it's obviously a common topic of conversation) wants to see any sort of staple job.
I'll tell you what dominates 90% of any SLI talk... that is the mess that is East vs. West, and the Nic award. Every dude I've talked to about it says something like "I wish they'd present one list, not two. The last thing we need is to be involved in E v W crap. Then WE would be painted as the villain, as it is guaranteed that one of the two groups is going to be royally hacked off."
I'll tell you what dominates 90% of any SLI talk... that is the mess that is East vs. West, and the Nic award. Every dude I've talked to about it says something like "I wish they'd present one list, not two. The last thing we need is to be involved in E v W crap. Then WE would be painted as the villain, as it is guaranteed that one of the two groups is going to be royally hacked off."
01-27-2014, 09:12 AM
#214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Guys, please stop with the wild speculation. Not one single APA guy I've talked to (and it's obviously a common topic of conversation) wants to see any sort of staple job.
I'll tell you what dominates 90% of any SLI talk... that is the mess that is East vs. West, and the Nic award. Every dude I've talked to about it says something like "I wish they'd present one list, not two. The last thing we need is to be involved in E v W crap. Then WE would be painted as the villain, as it is guaranteed that one of the two groups is going to be royally hacked off."
I'll tell you what dominates 90% of any SLI talk... that is the mess that is East vs. West, and the Nic award. Every dude I've talked to about it says something like "I wish they'd present one list, not two. The last thing we need is to be involved in E v W crap. Then WE would be painted as the villain, as it is guaranteed that one of the two groups is going to be royally hacked off."
01-27-2014, 09:36 AM
#215
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
I think ForeverFO has a great point. You're integrating 2 airlines. An arbitrator isn't expecting to see 3 lists, he's expecting to see 2. If you want to integrate 3 lists at the same time, where 2 of those lists fall under 1 union, theyre going to ask you to get things in order first. Keep in mind that since this process is already so messy, the SLI that will eventually prevail will be the one that the arbitrator deems the most "fair" based on the criteria that the parties present and/or agree upon. Asking for "too much" (i.e. CAL guys in the UAL/CAL SLI) could yield negative results. Don't get me wrong, the side who presents a better offer and gets their SLI proposal through will likely be criticized for not asking for more. Fun stuff right?
01-27-2014, 10:18 AM
#216
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
I think ForeverFO has a great point. You're integrating 2 airlines. An arbitrator isn't expecting to see 3 lists, he's expecting to see 2. If you want to integrate 3 lists at the same time, where 2 of those lists fall under 1 union, theyre going to ask you to get things in order first. Keep in mind that since this process is already so messy, the SLI that will eventually prevail will be the one that the arbitrator deems the most "fair" based on the criteria that the parties present and/or agree upon. Asking for "too much" (i.e. CAL guys in the UAL/CAL SLI) could yield negative results. Don't get me wrong, the side who presents a better offer and gets their SLI proposal through will likely be criticized for not asking for more. Fun stuff right?
Why would the arbitration panel expect 2 lists? That is not what was agreed upon in the MOU and they can be provided a copy. Have you read the MOU? Here are the relevant sections:
4. It is the intent of the Parties that, as of the Effective Date, the terms and conditions of employment
for pilots employed by New American Airlines and US Airways will be set by the MTA (as defined in
Paragraph 1(a)) and in accordance with the process specified herein. The Parties further understand,however, that it will take some period of time for those terms to be implemented. Accordingly, except for those terms specifically identified in Paragraph 3, the Parties agree that each term of the MTA shall be applicable to all US Airways pilots at the earliest practicable time for each such term, and such terms, when applicable, shall govern and displace any conflicting or wholly or partially inconsistent provision of the former US Airways pilot agreements or the status quo arising thereunder. Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder.
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10. [That is the MB process]
We have a deal with the APA. See section 10h. One group from the US side is going to be mad going into the process not matter what, it's a fact. The best thing the APA can do is stay out of that part. Abide by the MOU and let the 2 US lists enter into the process. Doing anything else will dirty their hands and if you want a real Sxxx storm, have them present the Nicolau award as the US list. Same if they were to present the USAPA DOH list. If the stay out of it, the US pilots will be mad at each other and not the APA and AA pilots.
01-27-2014, 10:34 AM
#217
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Why would the arbitration panel expect 2 lists? That is not what was agreed upon in the MOU and they can be provided a copy. Have you read the MOU? Here are the relevant sections:
4. It is the intent of the Parties that, as of the Effective Date, the terms and conditions of employment
for pilots employed by New American Airlines and US Airways will be set by the MTA (as defined in
Paragraph 1(a)) and in accordance with the process specified herein. The Parties further understand,however, that it will take some period of time for those terms to be implemented. Accordingly, except for those terms specifically identified in Paragraph 3, the Parties agree that each term of the MTA shall be applicable to all US Airways pilots at the earliest practicable time for each such term, and such terms, when applicable, shall govern and displace any conflicting or wholly or partially inconsistent provision of the former US Airways pilot agreements or the status quo arising thereunder. Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder.
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10. [That is the MB process]
We have a deal with the APA. See section 10h. One group from the US side is going to be mad going into the process not matter what, it's a fact. The best thing the APA can do is stay out of that part. Abide by the MOU and let the 2 US lists enter into the process. Doing anything else will dirty their hands and if you want a real Sxxx storm, have them present the Nicolau award as the US list. Same if they were to present the USAPA DOH list. If the stay out of it, the US pilots will be mad at each other and not the APA and AA pilots.
4. It is the intent of the Parties that, as of the Effective Date, the terms and conditions of employment
for pilots employed by New American Airlines and US Airways will be set by the MTA (as defined in
Paragraph 1(a)) and in accordance with the process specified herein. The Parties further understand,however, that it will take some period of time for those terms to be implemented. Accordingly, except for those terms specifically identified in Paragraph 3, the Parties agree that each term of the MTA shall be applicable to all US Airways pilots at the earliest practicable time for each such term, and such terms, when applicable, shall govern and displace any conflicting or wholly or partially inconsistent provision of the former US Airways pilot agreements or the status quo arising thereunder. Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder.
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10. [That is the MB process]
We have a deal with the APA. See section 10h. One group from the US side is going to be mad going into the process not matter what, it's a fact. The best thing the APA can do is stay out of that part. Abide by the MOU and let the 2 US lists enter into the process. Doing anything else will dirty their hands and if you want a real Sxxx storm, have them present the Nicolau award as the US list. Same if they were to present the USAPA DOH list. If the stay out of it, the US pilots will be mad at each other and not the APA and AA pilots.
01-27-2014, 11:15 AM
#218
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: FO
Posts: 92
90 days to a new contract w/ DOH. We must be getting our info from the same source.
01-27-2014, 11:21 AM
#219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
No, I'm figuring you will appeal. That's ok, maybe it will delay the whole thing. Got lots of guys retiring on our island. Yours?
01-27-2014, 11:26 AM
#220
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
No, I'm figuring you will appeal. That's ok, maybe it will delay the whole thing.
Got lots of guys retiring on our island. Yours?
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