RSV rules under MOU
11-18-2013, 07:24 AM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 68
RSV rules under MOU
Hope some of you can share your understanding of RSV rules under the MOU,
Is long call going away?
How long is short call under the "avail by ground xport" language?
Do you guys on AA side have long call?
How is 117 in January going to have impact on RSV call outs or PT times?
And any other topics as come up...
Is long call going away?
How long is short call under the "avail by ground xport" language?
Do you guys on AA side have long call?
How is 117 in January going to have impact on RSV call outs or PT times?
And any other topics as come up...
11-18-2013, 08:44 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 449
I think this is asked and answered 1 time every 3 or 4 days.
The basic answer is, have you read the MOU where it has rsv rules in it? Have you read any of the NAC updateds regarding what will be instituted and when?
If so, then you will know, we are as confused as you.
Not a clear answer other than, it might take 2 years for the scheduling sections of anything to be instituted.
The basic answer is, have you read the MOU where it has rsv rules in it? Have you read any of the NAC updateds regarding what will be instituted and when?
If so, then you will know, we are as confused as you.
Not a clear answer other than, it might take 2 years for the scheduling sections of anything to be instituted.
11-18-2013, 08:49 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 201
Hope some of you can share your understanding of RSV rules under the MOU,
Is long call going away?
How long is short call under the "avail by ground xport" language?
Do you guys on AA side have long call?
How is 117 in January going to have impact on RSV call outs or PT times?
And any other topics as come up...
Is long call going away?
How long is short call under the "avail by ground xport" language?
Do you guys on AA side have long call?
How is 117 in January going to have impact on RSV call outs or PT times?
And any other topics as come up...
11-18-2013, 09:33 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 285
Some highlights on new reserve under 117. According to this unless specified by the company EVERYONE is long call. So no more of what AA has had to deal with.
Before beginning any reserve or FDP assignment,
the flightcrew member must have received a 30
consecutive-hour rest within the past 168 consecutive
hours.
Before a flightcrew member may accept any assignment
to a FDP or reserve, he/she must have had a 10
consecutive-hour rest period including a minimum 8
uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity immediately
preceding the FDP or reserve assignment.
Q-76. Does Part 117 address reserve duty?
A-76. Yes. Part 117 divides reserve duty into three categories;
airport/ standby, short call and long call reserve. Unless
the certificate holder specifically designates the reserve
assignment as airport/standby or short call reserve, the
flightcrew member is on long call reserve.
Q-77. What is airport/standby reserve?
A-77. The flightcrew member must be required to be on the
airport property and his/her reserve duty period would be
determined by the time he/she goes on airport duty using
the FDP Table.
Q-78. What is short call reserve?
A-78. During the reserve availability period (RAP), the flightcrew
member is subject to being assigned flight duty in a short
period of time as determined by the certificate holder
without receiving a Part 117 rest period before reporting.
Q-79. If a flightcrew member is on short call reserve, what is the
maximum length of his/her RAP?
A-79. For an unaugmented operation, the total number of hours a
flightcrew member may spend in a flight duty period and a
RAP may not exceed the lesser of the FDP from Table B plus
4 hours, or 16 hours, as measured from the beginning of the
RAP. The reserve limits are applied to individual flightcrew
members. (Examples are provided at the conclusion of this
document.)
Q-80. Are the RAP limits different in an augmented operation?
A-80. Yes. The total hours that an augmented flightcrew member
may spend in a FDP and RAP is the FDP from Table C
(the Augmented Table) plus 4 hours as measured from
the beginning of the RAP. (An example is provided at the
conclusion of this document.)
May 2013 • 21
Q-81. What are the limits for long call reserve?
A-81. Notwithstanding any collective bargaining provisions, in
long call reserve, you are subject to call anytime during
any 24-hour time period. However, the certificate holder
must give the flightcrew member at least 10 hours’ notice
so he/she can get rest prior to starting a FDP. The FDP limit
would be determined from the FDP Table depending on the
report time for flight duty.
If the flight assignment that begins before and will operate
into the window of circadian low (WOCL, which is 0200-
0559), the flightcrew member must be given a 12 hour
notice of the assignment. This WOCL assignment does not
require a 12-hour rest period, the rest requirements remain
unchanged. (See Q-64.)
Q-82. Does a flightcrew member on long call reserve need 12 hours notice
if he/she is notified of a flight assignment that begins in the WOCL?
A-82. No. The 12 hour notice is only required if the FDP begins
before the WOCL and operates into the WOCL.
Q-83. Is the WOCL determined by local time or last acclimated time?
A-83. The WOCL is determined by last acclimated time.
Q-84. What rest is required before a flightcrew member can accept a
short call reserve assignment?
A-84. The flightcrew member must receive at least a 10-hour rest
break with a minimum of an 8-hour uninterrupted sleep
opportunity.
Q-85. Does the 30 consecutive-hour rest in 168 consecutive-hours
requirement apply to a flightcrew member given a reserve
assignment?
A-85. Yes. Before accepting a reserve assignment (RAP or FDP),
a flightcrew member must look back 168 consecutive hours
from the beginning of the assignment to determine if the
required 30-hour rest has been given.
Q-86. If a flightcrew member is assigned a RAP, can it be terminated
early? For example, the crewmember is assigned a RAP of 0700-
2100. The certificate holder at 0800 advises the crewmember that
his/her RAP is terminated. The crewmember is then given 10
hours of rest and assigned to a new RAP beginning at 1800. Is this
permissible?
22 • Guide to Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements
A-86. Yes, because Part 117 does not prohibit a certificate holder
from early termination of a RAP. This mirrors the rest
period required for a long call reserve.
Q-87. A flightcrew member on reserve is assigned a 3-day trip. On day 3,
the flightcrew member flies one segment and returns to base. After
block-in, the certificate holder assigns 3 additional segments which
can be completed within the FDP, flight time and cumulative
limits. Is this permissible?
A-87. If the flightcrew member has completed the FDP (blocked
in), he/she cannot be placed on a RAP to allow further flight
assignments until he/she has received a 10 consecutivehour
rest. However, before the end of the FDP, the
certificate holder could reschedule and add the 3 flight
segments. In that event, the flightcrew member would have
to recalculate the FDP, flight time and cumulative limits to
determine if the additional flight segments can be legally
flown. The flightcrew member would also have to reaffirm
his or her fitness for duty before beginning each flight
segment.
Q-88. A flightcrew member has 50 hours of FDP duty in the preceding
5 days (120 hours) and is on a RAP. Three hours into the RAP he/
she is given a FDP assignment of 10 hours. Does all of this time
(13 hours) count toward the cumulative FDP limits (60 hours in a
rolling 168 hours)?
A-88. No. Only the 10-hour FDP would count towards the
cumulative FDP limits.
Q-89. Part 117.27 limits consecutive night time operations to three
consecutive FDPs that infringe upon the WOCL without a rest
break during the duty periods. Does this limitation apply to
reserve duty? Can a flightcrew member be scheduled for more than
3 consecutive reserve periods that infringe the WOCL?
A-89. Section 117.27 only applies to an actual FDP. Because a RAP
is not a flight duty period, an assignment of three or more
RAP’s covering the WOCL would not trigger the limitations
of Section 117.27. However, if the crewmember is assigned
a FDP that would infringe the WOCL, Section 117.27 would
apply if he/she was assigned FDPs that infringed upon the
WOCL more than 3 consecutive times.
Q-90. Would the above answer to Question 89 be different if the WOCL
reserve duty was airport/standby reserve duty?
May 2013 • 23
A-90. Yes. Time spent on airport/standby reserve counts as
a FDP so all time in this status is counted towards the
FDP cumulative limits and would trigger the WOCL rest
requirements of Section 117.27.
Before beginning any reserve or FDP assignment,
the flightcrew member must have received a 30
consecutive-hour rest within the past 168 consecutive
hours.
Before a flightcrew member may accept any assignment
to a FDP or reserve, he/she must have had a 10
consecutive-hour rest period including a minimum 8
uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity immediately
preceding the FDP or reserve assignment.
Q-76. Does Part 117 address reserve duty?
A-76. Yes. Part 117 divides reserve duty into three categories;
airport/ standby, short call and long call reserve. Unless
the certificate holder specifically designates the reserve
assignment as airport/standby or short call reserve, the
flightcrew member is on long call reserve.
Q-77. What is airport/standby reserve?
A-77. The flightcrew member must be required to be on the
airport property and his/her reserve duty period would be
determined by the time he/she goes on airport duty using
the FDP Table.
Q-78. What is short call reserve?
A-78. During the reserve availability period (RAP), the flightcrew
member is subject to being assigned flight duty in a short
period of time as determined by the certificate holder
without receiving a Part 117 rest period before reporting.
Q-79. If a flightcrew member is on short call reserve, what is the
maximum length of his/her RAP?
A-79. For an unaugmented operation, the total number of hours a
flightcrew member may spend in a flight duty period and a
RAP may not exceed the lesser of the FDP from Table B plus
4 hours, or 16 hours, as measured from the beginning of the
RAP. The reserve limits are applied to individual flightcrew
members. (Examples are provided at the conclusion of this
document.)
Q-80. Are the RAP limits different in an augmented operation?
A-80. Yes. The total hours that an augmented flightcrew member
may spend in a FDP and RAP is the FDP from Table C
(the Augmented Table) plus 4 hours as measured from
the beginning of the RAP. (An example is provided at the
conclusion of this document.)
May 2013 • 21
Q-81. What are the limits for long call reserve?
A-81. Notwithstanding any collective bargaining provisions, in
long call reserve, you are subject to call anytime during
any 24-hour time period. However, the certificate holder
must give the flightcrew member at least 10 hours’ notice
so he/she can get rest prior to starting a FDP. The FDP limit
would be determined from the FDP Table depending on the
report time for flight duty.
If the flight assignment that begins before and will operate
into the window of circadian low (WOCL, which is 0200-
0559), the flightcrew member must be given a 12 hour
notice of the assignment. This WOCL assignment does not
require a 12-hour rest period, the rest requirements remain
unchanged. (See Q-64.)
Q-82. Does a flightcrew member on long call reserve need 12 hours notice
if he/she is notified of a flight assignment that begins in the WOCL?
A-82. No. The 12 hour notice is only required if the FDP begins
before the WOCL and operates into the WOCL.
Q-83. Is the WOCL determined by local time or last acclimated time?
A-83. The WOCL is determined by last acclimated time.
Q-84. What rest is required before a flightcrew member can accept a
short call reserve assignment?
A-84. The flightcrew member must receive at least a 10-hour rest
break with a minimum of an 8-hour uninterrupted sleep
opportunity.
Q-85. Does the 30 consecutive-hour rest in 168 consecutive-hours
requirement apply to a flightcrew member given a reserve
assignment?
A-85. Yes. Before accepting a reserve assignment (RAP or FDP),
a flightcrew member must look back 168 consecutive hours
from the beginning of the assignment to determine if the
required 30-hour rest has been given.
Q-86. If a flightcrew member is assigned a RAP, can it be terminated
early? For example, the crewmember is assigned a RAP of 0700-
2100. The certificate holder at 0800 advises the crewmember that
his/her RAP is terminated. The crewmember is then given 10
hours of rest and assigned to a new RAP beginning at 1800. Is this
permissible?
22 • Guide to Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements
A-86. Yes, because Part 117 does not prohibit a certificate holder
from early termination of a RAP. This mirrors the rest
period required for a long call reserve.
Q-87. A flightcrew member on reserve is assigned a 3-day trip. On day 3,
the flightcrew member flies one segment and returns to base. After
block-in, the certificate holder assigns 3 additional segments which
can be completed within the FDP, flight time and cumulative
limits. Is this permissible?
A-87. If the flightcrew member has completed the FDP (blocked
in), he/she cannot be placed on a RAP to allow further flight
assignments until he/she has received a 10 consecutivehour
rest. However, before the end of the FDP, the
certificate holder could reschedule and add the 3 flight
segments. In that event, the flightcrew member would have
to recalculate the FDP, flight time and cumulative limits to
determine if the additional flight segments can be legally
flown. The flightcrew member would also have to reaffirm
his or her fitness for duty before beginning each flight
segment.
Q-88. A flightcrew member has 50 hours of FDP duty in the preceding
5 days (120 hours) and is on a RAP. Three hours into the RAP he/
she is given a FDP assignment of 10 hours. Does all of this time
(13 hours) count toward the cumulative FDP limits (60 hours in a
rolling 168 hours)?
A-88. No. Only the 10-hour FDP would count towards the
cumulative FDP limits.
Q-89. Part 117.27 limits consecutive night time operations to three
consecutive FDPs that infringe upon the WOCL without a rest
break during the duty periods. Does this limitation apply to
reserve duty? Can a flightcrew member be scheduled for more than
3 consecutive reserve periods that infringe the WOCL?
A-89. Section 117.27 only applies to an actual FDP. Because a RAP
is not a flight duty period, an assignment of three or more
RAP’s covering the WOCL would not trigger the limitations
of Section 117.27. However, if the crewmember is assigned
a FDP that would infringe the WOCL, Section 117.27 would
apply if he/she was assigned FDPs that infringed upon the
WOCL more than 3 consecutive times.
Q-90. Would the above answer to Question 89 be different if the WOCL
reserve duty was airport/standby reserve duty?
May 2013 • 23
A-90. Yes. Time spent on airport/standby reserve counts as
a FDP so all time in this status is counted towards the
FDP cumulative limits and would trigger the WOCL rest
requirements of Section 117.27.
11-18-2013, 04:50 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
Some highlights on new reserve under 117. According to this unless specified by the company EVERYONE is long call. So no more of what AA has had to deal with.
Q-81. What are the limits for long call reserve?
A-81. Notwithstanding any collective bargaining provisions, in
long call reserve, you are subject to call anytime during
any 24-hour time period. However, the certificate holder
must give the flightcrew member at least 10 hours’ notice
so he/she can get rest prior to starting a FDP. The FDP limit
would be determined from the FDP Table depending on the
report time for flight duty.
If the flight assignment that begins before and will operate
into the window of circadian low (WOCL, which is 0200-
0559), the flightcrew member must be given a 12 hour
notice of the assignment. This WOCL assignment does not
require a 12-hour rest period, the rest requirements remain
unchanged. (See Q-64.)
Q-81. What are the limits for long call reserve?
A-81. Notwithstanding any collective bargaining provisions, in
long call reserve, you are subject to call anytime during
any 24-hour time period. However, the certificate holder
must give the flightcrew member at least 10 hours’ notice
so he/she can get rest prior to starting a FDP. The FDP limit
would be determined from the FDP Table depending on the
report time for flight duty.
If the flight assignment that begins before and will operate
into the window of circadian low (WOCL, which is 0200-
0559), the flightcrew member must be given a 12 hour
notice of the assignment. This WOCL assignment does not
require a 12-hour rest period, the rest requirements remain
unchanged. (See Q-64.)
11-18-2013, 05:01 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,527
"Reasonably available by surface transportation" has NO DEFINED TIME. Crew skd keeps trying to say "2 hrs". There is NO DEFINED TIME.
They've had DECADES to negotiate a defined time but have never done it. Why? Because it typically involves a long call system. They apparently prefer everyone on short call with no defined call out time.
They've had DECADES to negotiate a defined time but have never done it. Why? Because it typically involves a long call system. They apparently prefer everyone on short call with no defined call out time.
11-18-2013, 05:24 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
"Reasonably available by surface transportation" has NO DEFINED TIME. Crew skd keeps trying to say "2 hrs". There is NO DEFINED TIME.
They've had DECADES to negotiate a defined time but have never done it. Why? Because it typically involves a long call system. They apparently prefer everyone on short call with no defined call out time.
They've had DECADES to negotiate a defined time but have never done it. Why? Because it typically involves a long call system. They apparently prefer everyone on short call with no defined call out time.
11-19-2013, 05:24 AM
#10
New Hire... again.
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Not XJT
Posts: 13
I think there has to be either Short Call Reserve or Airport Standby... For situations where there is a sick call within 10 hrs of show time, or someone gets into a fender bender on their way to the airport, or a plane is grounded at an outstation and they want to use a spare in base, etc.
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