Two US Airways Unions Hold Back
11-02-2013, 09:51 AM
#21
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Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 117
Two US Airways Unions Hold Back
I was thinking of running the numbers on that. Sucks it's that long. At what point does somebody not realize how bad they are hurting themselves. Wishful thinking, but hopefully Silver will issue something even if the merger doesn't go through.
11-02-2013, 10:14 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
If USAPA thinks Doug Parker is bad, they obviously are not aware of what the AApilots have had to deal with. US seems to have an employee friendly culture with an system of open communication (crew news, etc.). Employees at AA have an intense hatred for their management, who took huge bonuses while they drove their airline into bankruptcy. At least Parker runs a profitable airline and keeps a friendly and open communication with all employees. The only reason USAPA hates him is because he refused to agree to a DOH list that was in direct defiance of an arbitrator's ruling. If the east pilots had accepted the ruling, then they would have had a better contract years ago. Don't blame management for what you have brought on yourselves.
USAPA is a dysfunctional mess, but that doesn't make Parker a Saint. His arrogance is part of the reason for the DOJ suit, IMHO. The AA pilots eyes will be opened when he doesn't need them anymore and we go back to "FU, grieve it!"
11-02-2013, 10:15 AM
#23
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Wiskey Driver,
I understand the West wanting the Nic, it was binding arbitration, but there is enough blame to go around. Neither side is willing to negotiate off of there opinion. Why can't we take 3 reps from the East and West and send them off to some remote place where they can't come back until a compromise is reached.
I understand the West wanting the Nic, it was binding arbitration, but there is enough blame to go around. Neither side is willing to negotiate off of there opinion. Why can't we take 3 reps from the East and West and send them off to some remote place where they can't come back until a compromise is reached.
11-02-2013, 10:18 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Wiskey Driver,
I understand the West wanting the Nic, it was binding arbitration, but there is enough blame to go around. Neither side is willing to negotiate off of there opinion. Why can't we take 3 reps from the East and West and send them off to some remote place where they can't come back until a compromise is reached.
I understand the West wanting the Nic, it was binding arbitration, but there is enough blame to go around. Neither side is willing to negotiate off of there opinion. Why can't we take 3 reps from the East and West and send them off to some remote place where they can't come back until a compromise is reached.
It's seems so simple when you look at what has been lost, but as of today I don't see either side backing down, look at WD's post. They think because they don't have the worst contract that they are winning.
11-02-2013, 10:20 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
What does that mean? Have you followed those grievances?
The snapback was a loser, not intended. But the company used the language that was later grieved to get that win. I know you hate USAPA, but can't you admit that the RLA grievance policy is flawed?
The snapback was a loser, not intended. But the company used the language that was later grieved to get that win. I know you hate USAPA, but can't you admit that the RLA grievance policy is flawed?
11-02-2013, 10:23 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
The end result is east pilots making less than Spirit pilots and out of seniority movement which is something they preach about within usapa only to be doing the exact same thing. No sir for the west its Award or nothing now. We simply will not reward their poor behavior with treats.
WD at AWA
WD at AWA
There has been no out of seniority movement. That TA calls for separate ops until the TA has been completed. It's hasn't been as of today, so everyone bid their seniority. You always leave that out. You want to fight your fight, but not live with the outcome.
Nobody has, or will, win on this stupid fight.
11-02-2013, 10:31 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Wiskey Driver,
I understand the West wanting the Nic, it was binding arbitration, but there is enough blame to go around. Neither side is willing to negotiate off of there opinion. Why can't we take 3 reps from the East and West and send them off to some remote place where they can't come back until a compromise is reached.
I understand the West wanting the Nic, it was binding arbitration, but there is enough blame to go around. Neither side is willing to negotiate off of there opinion. Why can't we take 3 reps from the East and West and send them off to some remote place where they can't come back until a compromise is reached.
Parker is no friend. He will spend $100 to get $10 worth of concessions. This 3% is the perfect example. And because he has enjoyed years of warring pilots, it might seem to the outside that he is not hated as much as Horton but this is a flawed assessment.
Last edited by justjack; 11-02-2013 at 10:43 AM.
11-02-2013, 10:39 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Because that would be entirely too reasonable and rational. Just so you understand- the East could have been bought. Parker could have put an offer on the table that took the sting out of the Nic- He certainly found his way to the negotiations when he wanted a merger. Now my post will be followed with pages of post from the West saying that this is not true. Believe what you want, but I am telling you that there has always been enough votes on the East if either enough money and/or fences were put on the table.
I think a decent contract, not even industry average, and a 5 year fence before USAPA got in would have done it.
11-02-2013, 10:52 AM
#29
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Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 1,353
And west pilots with 10 years sitting on reserve F/O at what? $90 an hour? Winning!
There has been no out of seniority movement. That TA calls for separate ops until the TA has been completed. It's hasn't been as of today, so everyone bid their seniority. You always leave that out. You want to fight your fight, but not live with the outcome.
Nobody has, or will, win on this stupid fight.
There has been no out of seniority movement. That TA calls for separate ops until the TA has been completed. It's hasn't been as of today, so everyone bid their seniority. You always leave that out. You want to fight your fight, but not live with the outcome.
Nobody has, or will, win on this stupid fight.
No one is winning and that much is for sure but considering the alternative its much better that we see it all the way thru now. It will end that much is a certainty and much sooner than later. See its no longer financially beneficial for LCC and they need it over with merger or not.
Now I don't know but guessing here that you didn't compromise with your children when they made poor decisions. I am betting you and your spouse explained that when you make bad decisions you must live with the consequences of that decision as it teaches being responsible for your actions.
Usapa expects or rather demands to be rewarded for their poor decision and we just will not do that. It send the wrong message.
WD at AWA
11-02-2013, 10:56 AM
#30
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Absolutely would have passed - most likely by a wide margin. I can't decide if this merger will be enough to change Parker. I honestly would be more than willing to kiss and make up- even with him. I would love nothing more than to finish my career on a peaceful, if not high note. Still, I am skeptical and either way I will be gone soon enough. I just hope that the pilots will understand who Parker really is and make sure that every agreement is ironclad because the RLA is going to be around for a very long time.
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