US West to recall remaining furloughed pilots
12-07-2013, 02:14 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,166
I'm afraid it'll only get worse. Go to the UA/CO sub-forum and look back over some of the vitriol during their process, and multiply it by a factor of ten (or more). Throw in the numbered Eaglets, the leftover anger from the TWA situation and (to a far lesser extent) Reno, and you've got a pretty heady brew just on the AA side. Then there's the disaster on our side, with a seniority dispute that's been festering for eight years including multiple lawsuits.
And people think I'm being pessimistic when I tell them there's NO WAY this doesn't wind up before an arbitration panel. Hell, I think there's a 50/50 chance that somebody throws a punch in the heat of battle and one or more persons spends a night in the hoosegow!
The best possible thing would be for all of us to shut the hell up, let our respective representatives do their work, then live with the results like grown-ups. But we all know that won't happen ...
And people think I'm being pessimistic when I tell them there's NO WAY this doesn't wind up before an arbitration panel. Hell, I think there's a 50/50 chance that somebody throws a punch in the heat of battle and one or more persons spends a night in the hoosegow!
The best possible thing would be for all of us to shut the hell up, let our respective representatives do their work, then live with the results like grown-ups. But we all know that won't happen ...
Remember how happy we all were on Nov 12th? Lets go back to that.
I really hope the silly slogans don't start soon. "Hired not AAcquired" "nAAtive pilot" and whatever else people can conjure up. Also nobody saved anyone this merger so don't start that game.
Last edited by CanoePilot; 12-07-2013 at 02:53 PM.
12-07-2013, 02:21 PM
#82
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
A while back I said that I straddle the fence between pessimist and realist. On this, I'm actually kind of optimistic.
I don't know if there are any guys on here that remember the attempted US/UA merger from 2000, but way before this point it had become very nasty on the ALPA webboard. Some east jackwagon asked a UA crew where he could get his 747 manual and then I had a UA guy tell me in a hotel van that I wasn't worthy of the Marvins, I'd always be "acquired, not hired."
Heck, this has been down right civil in comparison. I'll give some advice. Don't listen to wild jumpseat rumors. If a guy is on your jumpseat and has the stones to throw an incendiary, he probably doesn't have any weight with his own pilots. Let it go, don't spread it around. This will be settled between merger committees and probably the arbitration panel.
I don't know if there are any guys on here that remember the attempted US/UA merger from 2000, but way before this point it had become very nasty on the ALPA webboard. Some east jackwagon asked a UA crew where he could get his 747 manual and then I had a UA guy tell me in a hotel van that I wasn't worthy of the Marvins, I'd always be "acquired, not hired."
Heck, this has been down right civil in comparison. I'll give some advice. Don't listen to wild jumpseat rumors. If a guy is on your jumpseat and has the stones to throw an incendiary, he probably doesn't have any weight with his own pilots. Let it go, don't spread it around. This will be settled between merger committees and probably the arbitration panel.
12-07-2013, 04:53 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 449
But if you get a few hour sit in DFW. Find your way over to the Crew Supply Store, you can get your 777 flashcards fairly cheap. 
I kidddd I kidddd...
I think the f/o attributed to that 747 manual comment was a 23 or 24 new hire.
And before this gets flamed, have a sense of humor.......I don't want to fly the 777 goes to far away from home....Have already done many years of that flying. Don't want to go back to it
Seriously just Kidding.
I could only wish CLT of PHL could get a crew store at the airport as DFW does....was nice...and everyone we ran into were nice. Even when they saw the different uniform
I kidddd I kidddd...I think the f/o attributed to that 747 manual comment was a 23 or 24 new hire.
And before this gets flamed, have a sense of humor.......I don't want to fly the 777 goes to far away from home....Have already done many years of that flying. Don't want to go back to it
Seriously just Kidding.
I could only wish CLT of PHL could get a crew store at the airport as DFW does....was nice...and everyone we ran into were nice. Even when they saw the different uniform
12-08-2013, 06:45 AM
#84
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: Airbus F/O
Posts: 13
"Nic number..." nice. Now we apparently have "cafeteria" style seniority lists.
"Let's see, I'm, XXXX on the Nic, but YYYY on the proposed USAPA list. Then, there's ZZZZ if you combine APA lists with Eagle flowbees, minus the furloughees from 2 lists, plus DOH; how can I best reap the windfall through behavior, letters, etc?"
It's already started... this is going to blow chunks.
"Let's see, I'm, XXXX on the Nic, but YYYY on the proposed USAPA list. Then, there's ZZZZ if you combine APA lists with Eagle flowbees, minus the furloughees from 2 lists, plus DOH; how can I best reap the windfall through behavior, letters, etc?"
It's already started... this is going to blow chunks.
Ofcourse this is looking at how the CO/UAL integration went. If we get the Nic, none of this will matter I guess.
12-08-2013, 07:23 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 1,353
You know, there is a lot of truth to what you just said. One group choosing the seniority number that best works for them. And trying to bend the rules to make that happen. first they hate usapa and then usapa is there best friend. And they were all furloughed. in my opinion they are lucky to have been given an opportunity to fly vs working at Home Depot. Some of them holding lines over on the east while guys actually senior to them at AWA are on reserve. Again, not fair to the junior west pilots who were never furloughed. Seems to me like you should wish to get furloughed now to be given better opportunities. If these guys get to stay out on the east with a west doh moves them up about 15% in relative seniority. Over the bottom guys on the west list. I'm starting to understand this more. At first I didn't understand it really. That's why I asked the question on here. But now its starting to make more sense. And last, if they don't come back to the west, the junior west guys loose % in relative seniority because we are sitting closer to the bottom than we would be if they were to come back. It's all about the distance from the bottom you have when this SLI happens.
Ofcourse this is looking at how the CO/UAL integration went. If we get the Nic, none of this will matter I guess.
Ofcourse this is looking at how the CO/UAL integration went. If we get the Nic, none of this will matter I guess.
WD at AWA
12-08-2013, 07:29 AM
#86
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
I have difficulty seeing this marriage turning into a pilots utopia. On the AA side there is still a lot of resentment and anger over the TWA situation as well as a relative few who have some animosity toward Eagle flows and on the US side, regardless of how the internal SLI squabble is resolved there is certain to be career-long resentment there as well. In fact, depending on just how that turns out it could get even worse there. THEN we'll add mixing these two already toxic relationships together and well, it doesn't sound like a positive. At least not for quite a while.
12-08-2013, 07:30 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
You know, there is a lot of truth to what you just said. One group choosing the seniority number that best works for them. And trying to bend the rules to make that happen. first they hate usapa and then usapa is there best friend. And they were all furloughed. in my opinion they are lucky to have been given an opportunity to fly vs working at Home Depot. Some of them holding lines over on the east while guys actually senior to them at AWA are on reserve. Again, not fair to the junior west pilots who were never furloughed. Seems to me like you should wish to get furloughed now to be given better opportunities. If these guys get to stay out on the east with a west doh moves them up about 15% in relative seniority. Over the bottom guys on the west list. I'm starting to understand this more. At first I didn't understand it really. That's why I asked the question on here. But now its starting to make more sense. And last, if they don't come back to the west, the junior west guys loose % in relative seniority because we are sitting closer to the bottom than we would be if they were to come back. It's all about the distance from the bottom you have when this SLI happens.
Ofcourse this is looking at how the CO/UAL integration went. If we get the Nic, none of this will matter I guess.
Ofcourse this is looking at how the CO/UAL integration went. If we get the Nic, none of this will matter I guess.
The guys that took the recall to the east have been in limbo for years. They will have to make a decision and it won't be an easy one.
12-08-2013, 07:33 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
I have difficulty seeing this marriage turning into a pilots utopia. On the AA side there is still a lot of resentment and anger over the TWA situation as well as a relative few who have some animosity toward Eagle flows and on the US side, regardless of how the internal SLI squabble is resolved there is certain to be career-long resentment there as well. In fact, depending on just how that turns out it could get even worse there. THEN we'll add mixing these two already toxic relationships together and well, it doesn't sound like a positive. At least not for quite a while.
The PI/US merger was hotly disputed, but 95% moved on(and there was no internet then). Maybe the rift wasn't as big as it seemed compared to what we are facing. Hoping for the best.
12-08-2013, 07:48 AM
#89
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Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 1,353
It's happened before. One of the Addington plaintiffs had to pick his seniority number-the one he held at US or AW. I believe there are west guys that will do the same with their AA #.
The guys that took the recall to the east have been in limbo for years. They will have to make a decision and it won't be an easy one.
The guys that took the recall to the east have been in limbo for years. They will have to make a decision and it won't be an easy one.
WD at AWA
12-08-2013, 07:58 AM
#90
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
From my POV, still an undercurrent of resentment. It varies by pilot though. STL is being broken up and a large percentage of the former TWA group, most of which is there, will be moving to protected positions at DFW for the S80 and MIA for the 767. Many elected to use current system seniority and bid other positions outside the protected slots for various reasons. I think the further integration will generally go well. I would hope and expect most on both sides to not drag that baggage into the cockpit. Haven't heard anything bad about those who are already flying outside STL, but understandably, it's a touchy subject.
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