AOL update
05-01-2013, 10:03 AM
#841
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
"The LUP is the entry of a third pilot group's simultaneous arrival with the MOU, which is prior to JCBA implementation that would otherwise have made the DFR ripe."
"Any suggestion that the parties to the MOU (including US Airways) have agreed that the Nicolau Award seniority list will not be used is incorrect."
Yes cactiboss, but the quote does not say that they did accept the list either—its a neutral statement that does not point either way.
Read before you post.
Yes cactiboss, but the quote does not say that they did accept the list either—its a neutral statement that does not point either way.
Read before you post.
05-01-2013, 02:16 PM
#842
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
Again, management is officially neutral. Yes, they have accepted the inactive Nicolai list just like they will "accept" the next arbitrated list—Nic or not.
05-01-2013, 03:32 PM
#843
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
I don't know if they will ever be ripe, but USAPA will attempt to use the addition of a third pilot group on/or prior to JCBA as a LUP.
Again, management is officially neutral. Yes, they have accepted the inactive Nicolai list just like they will "accept" the next arbitrated list—Nic or not.
Again, management is officially neutral. Yes, they have accepted the inactive Nicolai list just like they will "accept" the next arbitrated list—Nic or not.
05-01-2013, 03:45 PM
#844
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
USAPA has no need of an LUP to move forward, i.e. there is no mechanism, no gate, no process, and no person that will assess the legitimacy of USAPA's fabled LUP requirement prior to an SLI being completed under present circumstances or those stipulated by the MOU.
The only way LUP becomes a factor is if Judge Silver says its ripe, and frankly LUP is never mentioned in any law as a threshold for assessing whether or not a union is guilty of a breach of DFR. The SCOTUS has established a threshold or standard to assess DFR, relative to the outcome of negotiations.. the result of the union work after it is complete.... "Wide range of reasonableness".
LUP will have zero relevance until the case is ripe, and even then LUP will have little to no importance in view of the SCOTUS standard that a union must meet to be free of DFR breach. The results of Union work must be within a "wide range of reasonableness", regardless of the purpose they had to arrive at the result.
05-01-2013, 04:41 PM
#845
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
USAPA has no need of an LUP to move forward, i.e. there is no mechanism, no gate, no process, and no person that will assess the legitimacy of USAPA's fabled LUP requirement prior to an SLI being completed under present circumstances or those stipulated by the MOU.
The only way LUP becomes a factor is if Judge Silver says its ripe, and frankly LUP is never mentioned in any law as a threshold for assessing whether or not a union is guilty of a breach of DFR. The SCOTUS has established a threshold or standard to assess DFR, relative to the outcome of negotiations.. the result of the union work after it is complete.... "Wide range of reasonableness".
LUP will have zero relevance until the case is ripe, and even then LUP will have little to no importance in view of the SCOTUS standard that a union must meet to be free of DFR breach. The results of Union work must be within a "wide range of reasonableness", regardless of the purpose they had to arrive at the result.
The only way LUP becomes a factor is if Judge Silver says its ripe, and frankly LUP is never mentioned in any law as a threshold for assessing whether or not a union is guilty of a breach of DFR. The SCOTUS has established a threshold or standard to assess DFR, relative to the outcome of negotiations.. the result of the union work after it is complete.... "Wide range of reasonableness".
LUP will have zero relevance until the case is ripe, and even then LUP will have little to no importance in view of the SCOTUS standard that a union must meet to be free of DFR breach. The results of Union work must be within a "wide range of reasonableness", regardless of the purpose they had to arrive at the result.
05-02-2013, 08:16 PM
#846
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
It may work, heck if I know. But here are a few problems I see. The TA calls for a JCBA between east and west. We don't have that. But, let's say the judge overlooks that. You crafted and voted for the document you now say is illegal!
We'll see.
05-02-2013, 08:26 PM
#847
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
USAPA has no need of an LUP to move forward, i.e. there is no mechanism, no gate, no process, and no person that will assess the legitimacy of USAPA's fabled LUP requirement prior to an SLI being completed under present circumstances or those stipulated by the MOU.
The only way LUP becomes a factor is if Judge Silver says its ripe, and frankly LUP is never mentioned in any law as a threshold for assessing whether or not a union is guilty of a breach of DFR. The SCOTUS has established a threshold or standard to assess DFR, relative to the outcome of negotiations.. the result of the union work after it is complete.... "Wide range of reasonableness".
LUP will have zero relevance until the case is ripe, and even then LUP will have little to no importance in view of the SCOTUS standard that a union must meet to be free of DFR breach. The results of Union work must be within a "wide range of reasonableness", regardless of the purpose they had to arrive at the result.
The only way LUP becomes a factor is if Judge Silver says its ripe, and frankly LUP is never mentioned in any law as a threshold for assessing whether or not a union is guilty of a breach of DFR. The SCOTUS has established a threshold or standard to assess DFR, relative to the outcome of negotiations.. the result of the union work after it is complete.... "Wide range of reasonableness".
LUP will have zero relevance until the case is ripe, and even then LUP will have little to no importance in view of the SCOTUS standard that a union must meet to be free of DFR breach. The results of Union work must be within a "wide range of reasonableness", regardless of the purpose they had to arrive at the result.
05-02-2013, 08:46 PM
#848
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Question. Are you now, or will you ever work under a DOH seniority list with the east pilots?
05-02-2013, 09:09 PM
#850
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
I know what you did. Let me finish your statement. Your AOL principles helped write it. You attorneys had ample time to review it. They told you to vote for it and all but 24 of you did. You voted for it in an effort to make your DFR case ripe, but then want to argue that the document you helped craft and were told to vote for is illegal because it doesn't force the Nic.
Then you want to Judge Silver to give you an injunction. You then figure that by the time USAPA can appeal it the APA will have taken over and will drop the appeal. About right?
It may work, heck if I know. But here are a few problems I see. The TA calls for a JCBA between east and west. We don't have that.
But, let's say the judge overlooks that. You crafted and voted for the document you now say is illegal!
We'll see.
We'll see.
Last edited by cactiboss; 05-02-2013 at 09:25 PM.
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