eaglefly

Physician heal thyself.

eaglefly

No, AMR was itching and poised to terminate. Had that happened, it would have snapped the spine of an already hideously swaybacked nag. PBGC locked up South American assets of AA and used leverage to force a freeze. Again, you're trying to cash someone elses check and I'm afraid the teller is laughing too hard to complete the transfer of funds.

Try a different teller.

LittleBoyBlew

Eaglefly....Have you taken your MEDS today??..You seem a little delirious..Just an observation..
I enjoy sparing with WD...He seems a bit more level headed than you...Can YOU please bring HIM back??

Wiskey Driver

Let it go Eagle and let us fight that battle, there is no need for AA or AE pilots to mix up with the east just yet. They are already going to be extremely angry when they find out that the panel will be using the NIC list and the world will be right again. I see your sign that says "NEXT TELLER" I'm here and my window is open send lilboy my way

WD at AWA

eaglefly

Oh by all means, I made no attempt to give him the idea I'd cash that check (it's out-of state ) as I have no idea what the ultimate resolution will be. He was attempting to pass a totally different check at my window and as you can read, he attempted to use the logic that in essence, he built my bank and therefore I should not only cash his check, but thank him for the opportunity to do so. Ludicrous. The transaction you speak of is of little interest to me as I have no control over it. In fact, our fun discussion (at least it was for me) had nothing to do with it and was started by his need to respond to my comments to another, which is fine. The problem I think developed when he couldn't leave his first stab alone and succumbed to the compulsion to return 2 hours after his initial response to re-engage, which is interesting in that it comes from someone that instructs others to "let it go" and belittles their supposed lack of a sense of humor. Seems a contridiction to me, but I digress.....

My intial points were simply that I think a fairly long fence will isolate both groups for a significant period and the APA prefers to stay out of this situation and deal with whatever list is presented for their arbitration as negotiations with the likes of East pilots and their afterbirth USAPA have proven pointless in the past. He stated (well, initially) that he's fine with a long fence thanks to their compensnation bump, but obviously that false facade melted away as the discussion progressed to reveal the ugly truth.

A truth we've all seen before, too.

No matter. Good luck on the transaction, however it goes. My guess, is if the amount received isn't up to his desires though, you may have to get security to get him out of the bank.

wiggy

Let me introduce the possibility, along the lines of what Cactiboss alluded to... that if for some reason the Nic is not formally recognized as legally binding prior to the SLI with AA, that the three wise men will effectively order the US/AW list in Nic order when it is integrated within the much larger group of AA pilots. If they are required to construct a 3-way list things could get very quickly, if not insurmountably complicated. The prior relationship between the US and AW groups could hardly be ignored. In effect they would be re-arbitrating the US/AW list under slightly different guidelines, and having to revisit the all the pertinent factors going into that "attempted integration", including relevant "constructive notice" timelines and equities brought to that merger. In that eventuality, -the detrimental effects on the AW pilots because of lack of (any) integration thus far would be brought out as a "prevailing inequity" brought to the new merger, or conversely, for any positive equities such as growth or hiring, that the US east group brought to a 3-way integration could be argued came directly at the expense of the AW pilots. It would be a mess, and I am pretty sure Nic or no Nic will be decided by a court before the "big show" begins.

This brings up another idea that the Easties might consider...perhaps the Nic ordering within the much larger group would reduce the angst on the part of the Easties...the impact of the Nic ordering among the two smaller groups would be "lost in the shuffle" so to speak, within the much larger group combined. AA if I understand correctly still have many hundreds on furlough, and the famous "17 years US seniority but formerly furloughed" guys on the bottom of the Nic would find themselves not so close to the bottom on a new list. Of course, AA guys are now in the process of being recalled and might not appreciate being thrown under the bus...but alas, for some of you Easties...-that would be "different" from your case, no doubt. (sarcasm intended)

The DOH thing...wow...hard to believe the Easties are going down that road again after all that has happened. (Not only with themselves, but the rest of the industry) But I actually understand it and it does make sense. It is the single demographic that favors them...in the extreme. DOH had been a legitimate demographic at one point...when mergers were not quite so consequential and hiring demographics in the industry were more closely aligned in time. The Easties ask for DOH because they CAN ask for it and still have some vague semblance of it being "fair". DOH simply will not happen with the AA group...I don't understand how there could be a single USeast pilot that thinks it "could" go DOH...that is delusional. USAir pilots should go with status and category and use their superior retirement attrition demographic to try to expand their ability to to fly AA widebodies, -or lessen the length and scope of fences on such widebodies, -or any other potentially desirable fleet/base the AA guys want to protect.

I watched with great entertainment and not a vague sense of familiarity the little exchange between Eaglefly and Littleboyblew (-he needed the money! Lol)...the inevitable "who brought the increased pay to the merger"...classic stuff...In my own very "considered" opinion, Doug Parker brought the pay for both groups...Doug and Doug alone...no "positioning" or "savvy negotiating" or "sacrifices" on the part of either pilot group (although I do acknowledge a well-deserved kudos for the AA group for not knuckling under to the first "LBFO"...you would have still got Dougie's deal later). So whichever group wants to to lay claim to inspiring DP to acts of unsurpassed ambition...in going from a smallish regional carrier to cobbling together the world's largest airline...well, -have at it...but can "you" really take credit?

eaglefly

"Entertainment" is probably the second best attribute of this forum (information being the first). I suppose one could say Parker is responsible for any monetary gains for labor, but since it was him that needs this merger more than any other individual player or group, I simply have to ask if even that is wholly true. IMHO, we wouldn't be here now if Horton had let AA slip through his fingers by alienating the APA to the point they'd run to perhaps the worst possible place for relief. To this minute, I think the majority of AA pilots would still prefer another solution than inheriting all that is bad within U and the substantially fewer attributes that are good, but the draconian demands of current management set in motion this path in the flight to refuge.

As for the future SLI between AA and U, perhaps it's possible 2 lists WILL end up coming forward to the arbitrators and who knows, maybe they'll compose a master list with 3 colors for AA, U/East and U/West (Blue, Red and Tan) and compose a "pre-merger career expectation" model ?

I recall someone discussing Silver's statements about the West having the ability to persue their DFR suit for damages when their harm is quantifiable, i.e., the suit is "ripe" and apparently that is now the claim. Does the term (or any award of) "damages" automatically mean an award restoring or instituting that which the plaintiffs believe was denied them, or might it simply be some form of financial compensation as in the TWA ALPA suit ?

Since there is another SLI imminent in this situation, what if the judge who rules on this issue allows the 2 unjoined and disputed US Airways lists to remain seperate and go forward to be decided by the new arbitration and simply awards financial damages to the west (say, for example $25-50,000/pilot) for faliure to accept the Nic ?

I'm not sure if any such DFR suit requires a clear-cut decision on the issue itself (don't DFR suits just punish financially after the fact ?) and it seems Parker is attempting to protect the company from being labeled a conspirator against the west and minimizing any financial damages angled in their direction. Some here have claimed absolute certainty about what will occur in any such DFR suit and I'm not so sure that ANYONE can claim certainty about this outcome.

justjack

Thanks- this is one of the most interesting things that I have read on this thread. Something to think about.

justjack

I agree- This is disturbing and now that Parker had had his years of pilots on the cheap and his mega merger, it does look like he would actually manage the company and try to put an end to this. At this point nothing is to be gained by this except more bad blood.

cactiboss

Negative, in Jet america/alaska the judge ordered the list to be re-ordered.