R57 relay

Cacti, you cut off part of the APA update above. In it, the APA says within 90 days of the POR "direct negotiations between the two UNIONS will begin." Did you miss that? Ignore that? Believe you will have judicial intervention? What exactly is causing you to ignore that?

GW258

WD, the NIC should never see success in our courts to elevate it to a standard that any pilot group would have to live with.

I get it why you want it for your personal gain.

The windfall you feel intitled to has not been earned by you.

I do understand what is going on, your motivation is shamefully obvious.

VenetianFryCook

Cacti is half-right on the question of when USAPA ceases to exist. As our bargaining agent, USAPA will be gone by the end of 2014. Per the MOU/MTA, APA will seek single-carrier status four months after POR (around February 2014). The NMB will render its decision 6-8 months thereafter, and given the numbers involved APA will probably take over as the bargaining agent without an election. An election could stretch the process somewhat, but regardless, it looks like West pilots will get what they really want for Christmas (the end of USAPA) next year.

That having been said, the SLI may very well not be done by then. Upon POR, USAPA and APA develop an integration protocol agreement, then commence direct negotiations on seniority. Anyone who thinks a negotiated seniority list is a realistic possibility is deluding themselves. Even if we receive absolute clarity on the Nicolau issue from the courts (one way or the other), I have a fair idea of what the initial proposals of both sides might look like, and they will be so ludicrously top-heavy for their respective sides that they'll never pass muster with the opposition. And remember, if the respective Merger Committees WERE to agree on a list, the APA and USAPA boards would have to approve, and there would have to be a dual membership ratification. I don't see a majority of either side voting in such a list, if it even got that far (which, again, I seriously doubt).

So, to no one's surprise, the SLI goes to arbitration. The arbitration timeline in the MOU/MTA is pretty open, given the unpredictable variables involved. We have to settle on three arbitrators, get them all together, along with all the expert witnesses, time for evidentiary hearings, study of proposals, etc., then for the arbitrators to deliberate and rule. It is very likely that that process will extend beyond the effective date of APA becoming the CBA for the combined AA/US pilot group.

At that point, USAPA is no longer the CBA, but the (former) USAPA Merger Committee will continue to exist in some form (whether as an autonomous segment of APA or a tail remnant of USAPA, I don't know) until the integrated seniority list becomes final. Only at THAT point would all vestiges of USAPA - indeed, all vestiges of the separate pre-merger airlines - cease to exist.

I agree that there is no way Parker will let anyone (the West pilots or any other subset) derail the merger, and I don't believe the West pilots want that to happen. The most the West pilots will do is obtain an injuction staying the SLI process until the courts rule on the seniority issues involved. And if they do, the company won't particularly care. Our costs are known for all groups (via the MOU/MTA) and that's all it takes to get them out of BK. If they have to schedule us separately a while longer, that's no real skin off their backs. They've got probably two years of post-POR work to fully integrate anyhow. Our little backyard brawl won't slow them one bit.

VFC

Wiskey Driver

Completely incorrect!! You know not my situation for you to make such a boastful post as to what my personal motivations may or may not be.

Now with respect to this situation, we had a process that process played out and a decision was indeed rendered. The east have used majority status to abrogate getting out of our agreed upon process results. This wind fall that you speak of is just not there or at least not on the west's part it isn't. Now if you want to see a windfall look no further than DOH where you can see one of epic proportion! A windfall of where the most JR res east first officer is elevated to mid level line holding captain with the stroke of a pen. I know in world that's fair right??? Well to the rest of the CIVILIZED WORLD it simply is not.

There is nothing the east can say or do for that matter to justify their actions of the past 5 years. It was nothing but pure greed and they have not only dishonored themselves, they have also dishonored the profession. The east's behavior is a sickening example of what a true airline pilot is supposed to be.

WD at AWA

tailendcharlie

WD the east hopes after 5 years people will just forget how it really went down and who has in reality been reaping the windfall....they could be right.

R57 relay

What windfall is that? Down twice the hulls as the west? Pit, Bos and Lga closing?Remaining on loa93? Forced displacement to the 190 for our bottom guys that only took recall to group 2? Which one?

Are you familiar with the term "separate operations?"

R57 relay

Do all the actions of all east pilots bother you? Like my donations to The Salvation Army?

Cacti could never answer me when I asked him how bad a contract I should accept to seal his windfall. How about you? That's what's ultimately required as your suit says.

R57 relay

What was the company's answer to AOLs letter? Did they agree the TA is now complete and the Nic is sealed?

You guys say now "Aw shucks,we don't want to harm the merger." That's not how your letters were worded. You didn't get results so now you claim the MOU that your attorneys told you to vote for is illegal. Integrity.

LittleBoyBlew

??? What you talking about Willis??

But yet AOL continues its FIGHT TO THE DEATH at all costs!!
Why? Because the risks can reap such great rewards!!...You know whiskey, if the judge reiterates the 9th and Silvers mandate, you boys will have to live with a SINGLE DOH list ....Why not argue to have TWO separate listS ??? As the MOU implies..The west ratified the MOU by an overwhelming margin....
Did you guys not read the document? Or did you simply take Marty's word..

cactiboss

It accidentally got cut off and I didn't notice. There will be no direct discussions because usapa won't be able to put forward their position until the court case is resolved. The multiple cases we are about to file won't be done until after usapa is gone. Make sense?