eaglefly

Actually, no they didn't. TWA pilots had their own representation and sued them for their failure to represent. The APA had no duty to TWA pilots in that situation. In THIS situation, once APA becomes the sole CBA, then they DO have a duty to all affected pilots. Their blast of yesterday confirmed they have no intention of micro-managing East pilots merger committee as a result of them being the CBA. Of course, USAPA can be expected to continue their misinformation campaign and the spread of manipulated false information and hysteria in the hope fear and cluelessness will maintain a close fiefdom of disciples. In that respect, clearly they have nothing to worry about.

cactiboss

Because usapa tries to fire you for non payment, duh!

PurpleTurtle

USAPA has no authority to fire any employee of USAirways, to be clear, and they have never had such authority. Sloppy analysis is the fertile garden of lawyers.

kingairip

Well...now I'm put in the undesirable position of trying to figure out who to believe...eaglefly or a couple of completely unbiased lawyers from the American Bar Association? In their words:

"American’s pilots were represented by the Allied Pilots Association (“APA”) whereas TWA’s pilots were represented by ALPA, and APA therefore had no legal obligation under ALPA Merger Policy or the equivalent. Despite months of negotiations, the TWA pilots were unable to reach agreement with APA. In the absence of an agreement between the two unions, American and APA entered into an agreement in November 2001, on how to integrate the TWA pilots under which some TWA pilots received credit for their TWA seniority and others did not. The day after reaching agreement, APA petitioned the NMB for a declaration of “single carrier” status for the combined TWA-American. This was granted in April 2002, effectively cutting ALPA and the TWA pilots out of any further role in the seniority integration process. [emphasis mine] ALPA challenged the agreement between APA and American in arbitration with American, alleging that American did not use its “reasonable best efforts” to protect the TWA pilots’ seniority protections in violation of its letter agreement. On April 18, 2002, an arbitrator held in favor of American. As a result of these proceedings, the TWA pilots bore the brunt of the impact of both the merger related lay-offs and furloughs, as well as the more significant effects that came following the downturn in the air travel industry after the September 11 attacks. [emphasis mine] " (page 24-25 of http://www.americanbar.org/content/d...thcheckdam.pdf)

I don't know, eaglefly. Sure sounds to me like the APA "took away a fellow pilot groups representatio(union busting) [SIC] to harm that group" (quote from cactiboss.)

cactiboss

You are a bigger idiot than I thought. U think any west pilot would pay your scab union a dime if we didn't have to?

PurpleTurtle

You said USAPA can fire an employee of USAirways. They can't.

AOL's sloppy analysis of who can do what, by what authority is the reason they lost $2M and counting.

cactiboss

Wow. So if I don't pay usapa I don't get fired? The section 29 letters I get every couple of months must be a figment of my imagination.

eaglefly

When have you ever believed anything I say ?

The fact is APA didn't represent TWA pilots, ALPA did right up until Supp CC was crafted. At that point, APA sought single-carrier as the SLI was already done and again, APA had superior numbers. ALPA could have rejected that, but was more interested in wooing AA pilots over and sold the TWA pilots down the river. They were sued and lost. Subsequently to Supp CC in 2001, some TWA pilots wanted to dispute the Supp CC ISL, but single-carrier and single rep was done. Since then, TWA pilots have made multiple runs at the present AA list, so far without success. You'll note the assertions by ALPA in their "challenge" to Americans actions was rejected as well.

None of this has anything to do with the present situation except being a fantastic false soapbox for USAPA to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt to bolster their interest in remaining relevant. Neither Liberace nor the Rockettes had half the showmanship qualities of the USAPA song-and-dance brigade.

eaglefly

I think he's mincing reality USAPA-style. No, unions don't fire employees, company management does. But fail to pay dues for an extended period of time and the union has the ability to SEEK a deadbeat members termination.

algflyr

To be clear, USAPA doesn't fire you or send you the letters. It's part of the contract with the company. The company must abide by the contract and therefore it's the company that will fire a pilot for non-payment of union dues...