AOL update
03-02-2013, 10:54 AM
#281
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
"As you know, courts order sanctions against parties and, in some cases,
their lawyers, for failure to preserve electronic evidence. Therefore, please
immediately take all necessary steps to ensure that relevant electronic evidence
is preserved and not intentionally or inadvertently destroyed.
Sincerely,
Marty Harper"
So Marty is saying -As you know, since you went to law school and all, but I'm going to tell you again so it will really scare you and I charge by the letter............
I can't wait to see the sternly worded letter they send the arbitration panel.
03-02-2013, 10:57 AM
#282
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
If you to be believed then usapa and the company just pulled a rabbit out of a hat. Let's see here usapa and the company, two parties to west will sue if the Nic. is touched, came up with an Mou that abrogates the wests rights to the nic. How does that make sense in any legal way? You do understand that 2 parties can't make a deal to exclude a third parties legal rights don't you? Have you read the part of the Mou that says any part of the document found illegal will be ignored? I wonder who got that language in there....
USAPA will have a responsibility to fairly represent you until replaced. If you don't think they did, then sue.
03-02-2013, 11:16 AM
#283
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
what do you think the demand letters are about? Geez. You guys don't get that because of addington we have a good chance at Tro? Tro's are granted on likelihood of winning a case. Unanimous jury verdict is powerful evidence. We won't be waiting for usapa to try and dfr the west, it's pretty clear to everyone that there is only one clear easy path for this merger. I very much doubt the apa and company have any allegiance to usapa and they're doh dreams.
Last edited by cactiboss; 03-02-2013 at 11:52 AM.
03-02-2013, 12:18 PM
#284
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Not saying it can't happen, just saying you'll have a tall order in trying to show harm.
Carl
03-02-2013, 12:53 PM
#285
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
That's not why Temporary Restraining Orders are granted. TRO's are granted on the basis of the complainant showing the court that they will be immediately and irreparably harmed if the TRO is not granted to provide time for full trial. How will you be harmed by this? How will your employment status be worse than what it is now by a seniority list integration with APA and USAPA? Not compared to a list that's never been implemented, but to the list you're operating under right now?
Not saying it can't happen, just saying you'll have a tall order in trying to show harm.
Carl
Not saying it can't happen, just saying you'll have a tall order in trying to show harm.
Carl
03-02-2013, 12:56 PM
#286
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
So once again, how will you be harmed by being integrated from your current list? You'll be asked this by the judge, so you'll need a good answer.
Carl
03-02-2013, 06:41 PM
#288
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
In other news:
Professor: US Airways-American Airlines merger won’t fix those companies’ organizational problems | Airline Biz Blog
I believe the West pilots are contributing some to the organizational arrogance fund.
Professor: US Airways-American Airlines merger won’t fix those companies’ organizational problems | Airline Biz Blog
Professor: US Airways-American Airlines merger won’t fix those companies’ organizational problems
By Terry Maxon
[email protected]
3:54 pm on March 1, 2013
Jim Underwood, a management professor at Dallas Baptist University, focuses a lot of business leadership. He has taken a look at the merger of US Airways and American Airlines, and sees some potential problems.
Here is an excerpt from his “Strategy Leadership and Performance” blog:
“The first real challenge for the new combined companies will be in the area of organizational capabilities…CEO, management, culture, structure, decision systems and strategic planning. Research shows that as organizations age, their levels of entrepreneurial behavior declines and will ultimately approach zero (at which point they become stupefied bureaucracies).
“One of the real indicators that has happened is what might be called ‘organizational arrogance.’ Organizational capabilities are a measure (again using a 1-5 scale) of a company to execute strategy.
“In the case of the new combined companies, it would be surprising for the company’s new CEO to scale out at 4.5 (empowering, inspirational), and for the new leadership to measure at the same level. It took years to create the calcification of both organizations’ capabilities, so don’t expect the merger to fix the problem.
“But it gets worse: Organizational arrogance fosters incredible resentment on the part of the employees of an organization. As this downward cycle plays itself out in relationships with unions, the end result is little less than a declared war.
“One thing to remember: How you treat your people is how they treat your customer. It should surprise no one that the battles between unions and the company left AA at the top of the ‘most hated’ airline list in 2012.
“You have to understand, you can’t blame just leadership. When an organization sinks to this level of dysfunctionality, it took two incredibly self-focused groups to get it there. They must share the blame equally, and if they do not reach that point of personal honesty, the downward cycle of relationships will continue at the new companies.
“The organizational gaps (if I could get internal access and measure them) are probably as follows: Leadership 2.5 (or performance gaps of -2.5…critical profit impact statistically), and worse for culture. It’s expected to find the same kinds of problems in the area of structure (highly inflexible).”
In an email to me, Underwood added: “I think you can make the case for the new AA to ultimately end up as a middle/lower end performer in the future airline business.”
http://thestrategicleader.wordpress....irways-merger/
By Terry Maxon
[email protected]
3:54 pm on March 1, 2013
Jim Underwood, a management professor at Dallas Baptist University, focuses a lot of business leadership. He has taken a look at the merger of US Airways and American Airlines, and sees some potential problems.
Here is an excerpt from his “Strategy Leadership and Performance” blog:
“The first real challenge for the new combined companies will be in the area of organizational capabilities…CEO, management, culture, structure, decision systems and strategic planning. Research shows that as organizations age, their levels of entrepreneurial behavior declines and will ultimately approach zero (at which point they become stupefied bureaucracies).
“One of the real indicators that has happened is what might be called ‘organizational arrogance.’ Organizational capabilities are a measure (again using a 1-5 scale) of a company to execute strategy.
“In the case of the new combined companies, it would be surprising for the company’s new CEO to scale out at 4.5 (empowering, inspirational), and for the new leadership to measure at the same level. It took years to create the calcification of both organizations’ capabilities, so don’t expect the merger to fix the problem.
“But it gets worse: Organizational arrogance fosters incredible resentment on the part of the employees of an organization. As this downward cycle plays itself out in relationships with unions, the end result is little less than a declared war.
“One thing to remember: How you treat your people is how they treat your customer. It should surprise no one that the battles between unions and the company left AA at the top of the ‘most hated’ airline list in 2012.
“You have to understand, you can’t blame just leadership. When an organization sinks to this level of dysfunctionality, it took two incredibly self-focused groups to get it there. They must share the blame equally, and if they do not reach that point of personal honesty, the downward cycle of relationships will continue at the new companies.
“The organizational gaps (if I could get internal access and measure them) are probably as follows: Leadership 2.5 (or performance gaps of -2.5…critical profit impact statistically), and worse for culture. It’s expected to find the same kinds of problems in the area of structure (highly inflexible).”
In an email to me, Underwood added: “I think you can make the case for the new AA to ultimately end up as a middle/lower end performer in the future airline business.”
http://thestrategicleader.wordpress....irways-merger/
I believe the West pilots are contributing some to the organizational arrogance fund.
Last edited by flybywire44; 03-02-2013 at 07:11 PM.
03-02-2013, 06:52 PM
#289
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 405
It was to a point. Regrettably he left out the final step which is membership ratification. The West mindset is that 'final and binding' somehow applies to everything: the seniority list, the contract, joint ops - all of it.
The realty is that we get to vote. Vote on rather we want to keep our old contract, the current East list and separate ops or vote in a new contract with the Nic award.
The East pilots, again a 2 to 1 majority, have overwhelming decided just to keep what we've got.
It is a shame we haven't voted down contract after contract to prove this to them but, then again, after 6 years of deadlock you think they'd have been bright enough to figure it out for themselves.
All water under the bridge.
The realty is that we get to vote. Vote on rather we want to keep our old contract, the current East list and separate ops or vote in a new contract with the Nic award.
The East pilots, again a 2 to 1 majority, have overwhelming decided just to keep what we've got.
It is a shame we haven't voted down contract after contract to prove this to them but, then again, after 6 years of deadlock you think they'd have been bright enough to figure it out for themselves.
All water under the bridge.
Last edited by FreighterGuyNow; 03-02-2013 at 07:08 PM.
03-02-2013, 07:51 PM
#290
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,502
The Nic award was never a windfall for the west. I am not going to rehash all the arguments, R57 and Venetian have set out most of the pertinent facts.
The biggest fact that everyone ignores in the hysteria here is that the Nicolau was the product of the accepted integration process. Both sides agreed to the process, the East picked the arbitrator, the process was followed and the list was made. Fair does not come into play. Whether you believe it was a windfall for one side or another is immaterial. We followed the process and the Nicolau Award is the result.
The west cannot do anything other than let this play out. We have to defend the award because it is the result of the Transition Agreement between the two parties. For us to try to modify the agreement or agree to anything else would nullify our case.
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