AOL update
03-02-2013, 06:13 AM
#272
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Bigg Bird!!
Posts: 599
Why did the (fleet mins) go away? By the west accepting this MOU you have essentially given up ALL quarrels of the past. The Co.s legal team was quite crafty wording this MOU. It gave the west a reason to ratify using fuzzy logic....And it worked!!
USAPA will be providing ONE list in deed. And it will be a combined East/West DOH list.. Better dust off your suit, cause were going to court.
Remember the burden of proof that a legitimate DFR has been triggered will lie on the AOL cult. You will have to prove legitimate damages.
USAPA has a "legitimate union purpose". This is a different transaction that requires a different approach to a combined SLI.
A free word of advise....Don't mortgage your home.
03-02-2013, 06:19 AM
#273
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
I understand the US Airways "west" pilots motivation to benefit from the windfall the NIC gives them.
There are the normal handfull of disgruntled pilots that post regularly here and wonder what the overall west group mentality is.
This is all a dream come true for that pilot group and find it hard to believe they would do anything to throw a wrench in this merger in spite of not getting the NIC.
There are the normal handfull of disgruntled pilots that post regularly here and wonder what the overall west group mentality is.
This is all a dream come true for that pilot group and find it hard to believe they would do anything to throw a wrench in this merger in spite of not getting the NIC.
03-02-2013, 06:20 AM
#274
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
I did and I went back and read it again. I don't see where you are getting that. I see three ways until we have a combined seniority list with AA.
8
e. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways East
pilots (excluding Group I aircraft) during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less
than 664,426. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US
Airways West pilots during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than
436,850.
10
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for
changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in
this Paragraph 10. (plural and paragraph 10 is the joint SLI)
i.
15. US Airways agrees that it will comply with the East and West CBAs and the Transition Agreement
[FONT=Arial]until the Effective Date. (Separate ops)[/FONT
One sides lawyers are way off on what this MOU says and how it will affect us.
8
e. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways East
pilots (excluding Group I aircraft) during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less
than 664,426. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US
Airways West pilots during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than
436,850.
10
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for
changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in
this Paragraph 10. (plural and paragraph 10 is the joint SLI)
i.
15. US Airways agrees that it will comply with the East and West CBAs and the Transition Agreement
[FONT=Arial]until the Effective Date. (Separate ops)[/FONT
One sides lawyers are way off on what this MOU says and how it will affect us.
Last edited by R57 relay; 03-02-2013 at 06:34 AM.
03-02-2013, 08:13 AM
#275
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
I did and I went back and read it again. I don't see where you are getting that. I see three ways until we have a combined seniority list with AA.
8
e. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways East
pilots (excluding Group I aircraft) during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less
than 664,426. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US
Airways West pilots during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than
436,850.
10
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for
changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in
this Paragraph 10. (plural and paragraph 10 is the joint SLI)
i.
15. US Airways agrees that it will comply with the East and West CBAs and the Transition Agreement
[FONT=Arial]until the Effective Date. (Separate ops)[/FONT
One sides lawyers are way off on what this MOU says and how it will affect us.
8
e. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways East
pilots (excluding Group I aircraft) during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less
than 664,426. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US
Airways West pilots during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than
436,850.
10
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for
changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in
this Paragraph 10. (plural and paragraph 10 is the joint SLI)
i.
15. US Airways agrees that it will comply with the East and West CBAs and the Transition Agreement
[FONT=Arial]until the Effective Date. (Separate ops)[/FONT
One sides lawyers are way off on what this MOU says and how it will affect us.
03-02-2013, 08:39 AM
#276
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Bigg Bird!!
Posts: 599
If you to be believed then usapa and the company just pulled a rabbit out of a hat. Let's see here usapa and the company, two parties to west will sue if the Nic. is touched, came up with an Mou that abrogates the wests rights to the nic. How does that make sense in any legal way? You do understand that 2 parties can't make a deal to exclude a third parties legal rights don't you? Have you read the part of the Mou that says any part of the document found illegal will be ignored? I wonder who got that language in there....
If you had a "legal right" to the nic, it would have been mandated by the courts!! capiche!! You have NOTHING. Proof of DFR will be up to AOL. The only "legal right" you have is a day in court. Whether the case has merit, will be up to the judge.. And pleeeaze do not bring up the Wake case. It is irrelevant to this merger.
03-02-2013, 08:49 AM
#277
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
03-02-2013, 09:52 AM
#278
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
To APA:
To Company:
Edgar N. James
JAMES & HOFFMAN, P.C.
1130 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., Suite 950
Washington, D.C. 20036
[email protected]
Re: Seniority Integration in US Airways - American Merger
Dear Ed,
This letter serves as written notice that the West Pilot Class, as certified in
cause No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS in the United States District Court District
of Arizona, anticipates future litigation and hereby requests that the Allied
Pilots Association, its principles, agents, lawyers, representatives, members,
directors, and assigns (collectively “APA”), place a litigation hold on certain
materials that will be discoverable in any such litigation.
Please hold, maintain, preserve and be prepared to disclose all materials
now existing, or that will be created in the future, that are related to pilot
seniority integration between those pilots currently represented by APA and
those currently represented by the US Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”),
dating back to the beginning of discussions between APA and US Airways. We
understand that such discussions may have commenced in early 2012 but
perhaps earlier. So, this notice is intended to cover the entire time period
during which such discussions, whether formal or informal, occurred.
This notice applies to all materials related to: (1) discussions and/or
negotiations of those aspects of the February 2013 Memorandum of
Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (“MOU”)
that relate to seniority integration (including draft language that was not
adopted); (2) designating participants in all MOU seniority integration
processes, including participants in the process of negotiating the Seniority
Integration Protocol referenced in the MOU; (3) actual discussions and/or
negotiations of, and implementation of, that Seniority Integration Protocol; (4)communications with US Airways pilots and American Airlines pilots on all
issues related to seniority integration whether in their capacity as union
representatives or otherwise; and (5) communications related to protecting all
aforementioned materials.
Please note that APA is obligated to preserve all evidence encompassed
by this request, including evidence that may be stored electronically. We
anticipate the strong possibility of future litigation wherein we will need to
conduct discovery of such evidence from APA including, but not limited to emails
and drafts of documents, agreements, presentations and similar things,
even if paper copies are available. Please be aware that this and other relevant
electronic evidence may be stored on APA’s computers, local hard drives, backup
files, back-up tapes, local servers, remote servers, personal digital
assistants, and other storage sites for electronic data. As such, please advise
APA and all relevant privies, personnel, agents and the like that they need to
disable or suspend any and all routine or automatic deletion procedures and
take all other necessary steps to preserve electronic evidence relevant to the
requested items and the lawsuit.
As you know, courts order sanctions against parties and, in some cases,
their lawyers, for failure to preserve electronic evidence. Therefore, please
immediately take all necessary steps to ensure that relevant electronic evidence
is preserved and not intentionally or inadvertently destroyed.
Sincerely,
Marty Harper
MH:asj
JAMES & HOFFMAN, P.C.
1130 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., Suite 950
Washington, D.C. 20036
[email protected]
Re: Seniority Integration in US Airways - American Merger
Dear Ed,
This letter serves as written notice that the West Pilot Class, as certified in
cause No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS in the United States District Court District
of Arizona, anticipates future litigation and hereby requests that the Allied
Pilots Association, its principles, agents, lawyers, representatives, members,
directors, and assigns (collectively “APA”), place a litigation hold on certain
materials that will be discoverable in any such litigation.
Please hold, maintain, preserve and be prepared to disclose all materials
now existing, or that will be created in the future, that are related to pilot
seniority integration between those pilots currently represented by APA and
those currently represented by the US Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”),
dating back to the beginning of discussions between APA and US Airways. We
understand that such discussions may have commenced in early 2012 but
perhaps earlier. So, this notice is intended to cover the entire time period
during which such discussions, whether formal or informal, occurred.
This notice applies to all materials related to: (1) discussions and/or
negotiations of those aspects of the February 2013 Memorandum of
Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (“MOU”)
that relate to seniority integration (including draft language that was not
adopted); (2) designating participants in all MOU seniority integration
processes, including participants in the process of negotiating the Seniority
Integration Protocol referenced in the MOU; (3) actual discussions and/or
negotiations of, and implementation of, that Seniority Integration Protocol; (4)communications with US Airways pilots and American Airlines pilots on all
issues related to seniority integration whether in their capacity as union
representatives or otherwise; and (5) communications related to protecting all
aforementioned materials.
Please note that APA is obligated to preserve all evidence encompassed
by this request, including evidence that may be stored electronically. We
anticipate the strong possibility of future litigation wherein we will need to
conduct discovery of such evidence from APA including, but not limited to emails
and drafts of documents, agreements, presentations and similar things,
even if paper copies are available. Please be aware that this and other relevant
electronic evidence may be stored on APA’s computers, local hard drives, backup
files, back-up tapes, local servers, remote servers, personal digital
assistants, and other storage sites for electronic data. As such, please advise
APA and all relevant privies, personnel, agents and the like that they need to
disable or suspend any and all routine or automatic deletion procedures and
take all other necessary steps to preserve electronic evidence relevant to the
requested items and the lawsuit.
As you know, courts order sanctions against parties and, in some cases,
their lawyers, for failure to preserve electronic evidence. Therefore, please
immediately take all necessary steps to ensure that relevant electronic evidence
is preserved and not intentionally or inadvertently destroyed.
Sincerely,
Marty Harper
MH:asj
Robert Siegel
O’MELVENY & MYERS, L.L.P.
400 South Hope Street
Los Angeles, CA 90071
[email protected]
Re: Seniority Integration in US Airways - American Merger
Dear Bob,
This letter serves as written notice that the West Pilot Class, as certified in
cause No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS in the United States District Court District
of Arizona, anticipates the possibility of litigation and hereby requests that US
Airways, its principles, agents, lawyers, representatives, members, directors,
and assigns (collectively “Airways”), place a litigation hold on certain materials
that will be discoverable in such litigation.
Please hold, maintain, preserve and be prepared to disclose all materials
now existing, or that will be created in the future, that are related to pilot
seniority integration, dating back to the issuance of the Nicolau Award on May
1, 2007. This notice applies to all materials related to: (1) discussions and/or
negotiations of those aspects of the February 2013 Memorandum of
Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (“MOU”)
that relate to seniority integration (including draft language that was not
adopted); (2) designating participants in all MOU seniority integration
processes, including participants in the process of negotiating the Seniority
Integration Protocol referenced in the MOU; (3) actual discussions and/or
negotiations of, and implementation of, that Seniority Integration Protocol; (4)
communications with US Airways pilots and American Airlines pilots on all
issues related to seniority integration whether in their capacity as union
representatives or otherwise; and (5) communications related to protecting all
aforementioned materials.this request, including evidence that may be stored electronically. We
anticipate the strong possibility of future litigation wherein we will need to
conduct discovery of such evidence from Airways including, but not limited to
e-mails and drafts of documents, agreements, presentations and similar things,
even if paper copies are available. Please be aware that this and other relevant
electronic evidence may be stored on Airways’ computers, local hard drives,
back-up files, back-up tapes, local servers, remote servers, personal digital
assistants, and other storage sites for electronic data. As such, please advise
Airways and all relevant privies, personnel, agents and the like that they need
to disable or suspend any and all routine or automatic deletion procedures and
take all other necessary steps to preserve electronic evidence relevant to the
requested items and the lawsuit.
As you know, courts order sanctions against parties and, in some cases,
their lawyers, for failure to preserve electronic evidence. Therefore, please
immediately take all necessary steps to ensure that relevant electronic evidence
is preserved and not intentionally or inadvertently destroyed.
Sincerely,
Marty Harper
MH:asj
O’MELVENY & MYERS, L.L.P.
400 South Hope Street
Los Angeles, CA 90071
[email protected]
Re: Seniority Integration in US Airways - American Merger
Dear Bob,
This letter serves as written notice that the West Pilot Class, as certified in
cause No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS in the United States District Court District
of Arizona, anticipates the possibility of litigation and hereby requests that US
Airways, its principles, agents, lawyers, representatives, members, directors,
and assigns (collectively “Airways”), place a litigation hold on certain materials
that will be discoverable in such litigation.
Please hold, maintain, preserve and be prepared to disclose all materials
now existing, or that will be created in the future, that are related to pilot
seniority integration, dating back to the issuance of the Nicolau Award on May
1, 2007. This notice applies to all materials related to: (1) discussions and/or
negotiations of those aspects of the February 2013 Memorandum of
Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (“MOU”)
that relate to seniority integration (including draft language that was not
adopted); (2) designating participants in all MOU seniority integration
processes, including participants in the process of negotiating the Seniority
Integration Protocol referenced in the MOU; (3) actual discussions and/or
negotiations of, and implementation of, that Seniority Integration Protocol; (4)
communications with US Airways pilots and American Airlines pilots on all
issues related to seniority integration whether in their capacity as union
representatives or otherwise; and (5) communications related to protecting all
aforementioned materials.this request, including evidence that may be stored electronically. We
anticipate the strong possibility of future litigation wherein we will need to
conduct discovery of such evidence from Airways including, but not limited to
e-mails and drafts of documents, agreements, presentations and similar things,
even if paper copies are available. Please be aware that this and other relevant
electronic evidence may be stored on Airways’ computers, local hard drives,
back-up files, back-up tapes, local servers, remote servers, personal digital
assistants, and other storage sites for electronic data. As such, please advise
Airways and all relevant privies, personnel, agents and the like that they need
to disable or suspend any and all routine or automatic deletion procedures and
take all other necessary steps to preserve electronic evidence relevant to the
requested items and the lawsuit.
As you know, courts order sanctions against parties and, in some cases,
their lawyers, for failure to preserve electronic evidence. Therefore, please
immediately take all necessary steps to ensure that relevant electronic evidence
is preserved and not intentionally or inadvertently destroyed.
Sincerely,
Marty Harper
MH:asj
03-02-2013, 10:54 AM
#280
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
From companies lead counsel:
“In pursuing its seniority initiative generally and as a basis for its protocol proposal, USAPA continues to ignore or misinterpret what the courts have clearly stated concerning its (and, by extension, the Company’s) risk of DFR breach. For example, in his November 21 letter, Mr. Wilder included a quoted phrase surgically extracted from Judge Silver’s recent opinion to support the union’s view that US Airways and USAPA are now free to agree upon ‘any seniority regime they wish.’ What Mr. Wilder neglects to mention, however, is that just a few lines later in that same opinion, Judge Silver declared that, ‘by discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau award places USAPA on dangerous ground.”
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