R57 relay

Until it came up here, I think most assumed that the 3rd listers would be junior to all that were hired at the former AW. I did and I'm flying with one and that's his understanding too.

If there is a moral basis to this, I don't believe a guy with two months time with the company should be placed senior to a guy with years of service-that's what Nicolau did.

But with the MOU and the current stance of the west I think it is a possibility. You never know what you get when you go to arbitration. No side does.

wiggy

You know what, I share those sentiments Eastie. Whenever my tone has appeared to get a little shrill on this controversy, I've sometimes had a vague, uneasy feeling about it...and it's obviously come to the fore recently...couldn't quite put my finger on it...Until now with your post...although a little harsh, you've got the right idea...I shouldn't appear to be so involved...and I've got better things to do. I'm sure everyone does. So, to indulge the idea that you have anything useful to say to me...I'm going to make an attempt to tone down the ad hoministic rhetoric...fair enough?

But let me run through a few ideas here. Eastie, being from another airline, with seemingly no interest in this, how is it that you can claim I'm biased? Could it be because I disagree with your position? Ya think? The west guys don't seem to mind me imposing myself in this dispute...

Sticking my nose into other people's business? Maybe, but I can make an argument like our ole buddy PT there, that says something like this: Your idea works both ways...why should you care what I do Eastie? Did somebody elect you gatekeeper?...self-appointed hall monitor?...moderator? Keeper of the sacred USAPA flame? Your own motivations can't exactly be exempt from the charge of "worrisome, meddling busybody" now can they...how about "nosey, sanctimonious old granny"? Too harsh probably...fretting, faultfinding old fart?

Really, to me, this whole thing seems more like an extended, contentious private conversation with R-57 about SLI ethics ...I must have gradually lost touch with the fact that there are thousands of USAir pilots eagerly keeping tabs on what's going on here...what with all the enthusiasm for east/west threads popping up on these pages....Yes, I've recklessly imposed myself in their main source of information about their airline....wow, I realize now I've probably even interrupted the civilized, gentlemanly decorum in this exclusive, private club....yep, a regular fraternity of tight-knit, like-minded brothers...absolutely no outsiders allowed..

Now, recently, with the arrival of the aforementioned "PurpleTurtle" I will admit I've been a bit vociferous for an outsider...maybe appear to be incensed a little more than I should...But come on Eastie!....new hires placed above guys that have been actively flying ten years? (Oh, sorry...with a moniker like "Eastie Pilot", which, for some reason, I'm thinking, -might've found it's inspiration with the advent of the Nic...the odds are I'm appealing for sanity to the wrong guy)

Your litany of "everyone else's" seniority disputes I've imposed myself in seems a bit on the creatively excessive, deceptively disingenuous side...I mean, the DL/NW merger can hardly be called "someone else's" right? So I might be excused, I would think, even with your highly refined sense of propriety, it was probably ok to comment on my own airline, maybe?....The UA/CO merger...don't remember much, and if I commented it wasn't much....SWA/Air Tran? -Absolutely...anybody that doesn't think that was a travesty needs to have their head examined...My first comment on that thread was met with profuse gratitude on the part of an Air Tran pilot, BTW...seems he was so glad someone from the outside sympathized with their plight....then US/AWA...let me explain that one, you see, it went to arbitration and...(ok, my attempts at humor aren't always successful) And now US/AA...which, if you'll excuse me, is as laughable as your invoking DL/NW....being that it melds seamlessly and indistinguishably with..."that other seniority dispute".

So let's count that long old list up now....only legitimately...although the ink may run dry before we get to the end...Rather than five (5) whole mergers, I count two (2) that I've horned in on...2 that've heard my unwelcome, unsolicited comments on (at least for one side). Wow Eastie, that's a 60% reduction in that long gray line of pot-stirring, trouble-making commentaries...

I have to ask, do you see a common thread in that long, infamous line of two mergers I've commented on? Something about a much larger pilot group imposing their will in the seniority arena, on a much smaller group, simply because they can? Sound like a familiar story? Does it sound like I'm consistent? Does it sound like a principle was involved?

And then there's that little matter of it being a free country, and this being an open, public forum, and the subject matter "American/USAirways Merger" here on APC not having a "members only" sign hung on the door...Gosh, there's even the remote idea that it could be considered one of the purposes of an entity such as APC...A common meeting place for airline pilots, a place to exchange information and ideas from around the industry amongst themselves...-and yes, a forum for the airing of controversy...why, I'd even say, thanks to the airing and engagement of this controversy on APC, the rest of the industry seems to have learned, and continues to learn, a lesson about "how not to go about effecting a merger between two pilot groups..."

So Eastie, you've done due diligent research in exposing my own APC "curriculum vitae" for all to see...a withering exposé and critique of my motivations. One would think from such rarified, privileged position...wide body captain flying Europe, at the highest pay rates in the industry, that I shouldn't concern myself with the internecine back-biting that seems to, on these threads at least, consume the collective psyche of the groups involved...But that points to another principle...that there are some who resist your formulation of what it means to be a successful, senior pilot, gazing down with haughty disdain on the struggling masses clamoring for position...When we actually should take to heart the idea that it is merely a fortuitous hire date and a reasonable blessing of health that's usually the culprit for such success. Contained within that idea is the fact that everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time, and hopes to sit next to the large breasted red-head on the van ride to the hotel...(a rarity in Europe, for sure)

wiggy

Phew, I didn't realize what a lengthy diatribe my above post was (to Eastie Pilot) But like most posts, probably not worth as much to read as it was to write.

So, R, I heartily agree with your above post. An intuitive, self-evident ethical judgement...Not so bad, was it. With that maybe we can put that whole issue to rest as perhaps, a tempest in a tea pot...I have a feeling sanity will prevail in that eventuality, if it becomes one.

Wiskey Driver

WOW!!! Let see if he even figures out that he's been insulted. That was a great read I must say.

WD at AWA

R57 relay

So, are you claiming that putting newhires above guys with a decade of service is a bad thing? Did I get that right? If so, did you write anything about how wrong the Nicolau award was for putting guys with over 15 years active service behind new hires? Or the west 's proposal to put over 900 active pilots below AW new hires?

Wiskey Driver

Apples to oranges. The 15yr usair guy was at the bottom of the res f/o list and should have been slotted with our bottom f/o that's fair. We have been through this over and over and your thinking those guys go from bottom f/o's to line holding captains over night is just not going to cut it.

The 3rd listers came to a company ALREADY MERGED so whats your rational for further theft?

WD at AWA

Eastie Pilot

If I had read past the first paragraph maybe I would have thought it was an insult. The fact is, I don't really give a s$)# what wiggy thinks. Or you either WD. I know my post was an insult to him. He's a long winded blow hard that thinks he's smarter than everyone else and isn't even shy to tell you that he's smarter than you. I can see why you like him. It's like a pompous a$$ looking in the mirror.

Wiskey Driver

And yet you take the time to respond

Here I was thinking that you were too stupid to realize that you had been insulted by someone clearly far above your intellectual level but I stand corrected. We both know you read it in its entirety and pretending otherwise only makes you look even more foolish and desperate. I don't much mind the little things you say, you like relay and purple are beneath me.

WD at AWA

R57 relay

You have to be joking. Above his intellectual level? From you?

My daughter is an editor and above my intellectual level for sure. I couldn't do more than skim/speed read one of wiggy's posts. I sent her the .....diatribe. One word reply-awful.

wiggy

Wow R, you took the time to send my diatribe to your daughter? I'm flattered, though disappointed with her reaction....awful? The fact that she is an editor seems convincing, but the fact that she is your daughter dispels all reasonable doubt that she must be right....