AOL update
01-10-2014, 09:38 PM
#2402
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
AOL 12/10 update.
Leonidas Update January 10, 2013
This afternoon Judge Roslyn Silver issued her decision in our lawsuit against USAPA. You can read the order here. We highly encourage all pilots to read the 22 page order in its entirety. Unfortunately, the Court did not grant us the relief requested, but the Court did find the following:
- Our DFR question is difficult to answer without a final seniority regime to compare against the Nicolau;
- Only a bargaining agent can participate in the McCaskill-Bond process;
- Judge Silver has serious doubts whether USAPA will fairly and adequately represent the West;
- Judge Silver ruled that USAPA will not be allowed to participate in the seniority integration proceedings once the NMB certifies the APA as the exclusive bargaining agent.
We will provide a more detailed update after we have more thoroughly analyzed today's order. This has been and continues to be quite the Odyssey for all US Airways pilots. The West is still here because of your unwavering support. We will close by saying this: the seniority dispute is far from over.
Take care and fly safe.
Sincerely,
Leonidas, LLC
This afternoon Judge Roslyn Silver issued her decision in our lawsuit against USAPA. You can read the order here. We highly encourage all pilots to read the 22 page order in its entirety. Unfortunately, the Court did not grant us the relief requested, but the Court did find the following:
- Our DFR question is difficult to answer without a final seniority regime to compare against the Nicolau;
- Only a bargaining agent can participate in the McCaskill-Bond process;
- Judge Silver has serious doubts whether USAPA will fairly and adequately represent the West;
- Judge Silver ruled that USAPA will not be allowed to participate in the seniority integration proceedings once the NMB certifies the APA as the exclusive bargaining agent.
We will provide a more detailed update after we have more thoroughly analyzed today's order. This has been and continues to be quite the Odyssey for all US Airways pilots. The West is still here because of your unwavering support. We will close by saying this: the seniority dispute is far from over.
Take care and fly safe.
Sincerely,
Leonidas, LLC
01-11-2014, 02:32 AM
#2403
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 449
First you may want to take a gander around page 10. Interesting discussion in the decision there. Something about there will NEVER be a seniority list to compare to the NIC. So that is dead.
Second part. The hanging chad that you diehards are going to hang on too. The simple sentence where she says usapa will no longer be present after the numb run off and prior to finalization of a SLI. That pretty much just shows she didn't read all of the mou...... And is simply one if her rumblings......not an order
Have a nice day....
Tic toc
Second part. The hanging chad that you diehards are going to hang on too. The simple sentence where she says usapa will no longer be present after the numb run off and prior to finalization of a SLI. That pretty much just shows she didn't read all of the mou...... And is simply one if her rumblings......not an order
Have a nice day....
Tic toc
01-11-2014, 04:55 AM
#2404
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
"- Judge Silver ruled that USAPA will not be allowed to participate in the seniority integration proceedings once the NMB certifies the APA as the exclusive bargaining agent."
She did not rule this. She said this in her rambling diatribe, but it makes no sense. It would completely undermine the intent of the law. Plus, if that were the case then this whole argument is moot! Under her premise even with a win for AOL the APA could come in and do whatever it wants anyway!
Send them more money. Geez.
She did not rule this. She said this in her rambling diatribe, but it makes no sense. It would completely undermine the intent of the law. Plus, if that were the case then this whole argument is moot! Under her premise even with a win for AOL the APA could come in and do whatever it wants anyway!
Send them more money. Geez.
01-11-2014, 05:56 AM
#2405
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 321
Wonder how you are going to feel about your career when it's all over R57....Are you going to spend the next 20 years trying to convince yourself that you didn't cheat? After the East and West integrate and more of the older Easties retire you might find yourself in a very lonely cockpit.
01-11-2014, 06:01 AM
#2406
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Pitot heat, what's to eat?
Posts: 392
"- Judge Silver ruled that USAPA will not be allowed to participate in the seniority integration proceedings once the NMB certifies the APA as the exclusive bargaining agent."
She did not rule this. She said this in her rambling diatribe, but it makes no sense. It would completely undermine the intent of the law. Plus, if that were the case then this whole argument is moot! Under her premise even with a win for AOL the APA could come in and do whatever it wants anyway!
Send them more money. Geez.
She did not rule this. She said this in her rambling diatribe, but it makes no sense. It would completely undermine the intent of the law. Plus, if that were the case then this whole argument is moot! Under her premise even with a win for AOL the APA could come in and do whatever it wants anyway!
Send them more money. Geez.
01-11-2014, 06:02 AM
#2407
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Wonder how you are going to feel about your career when it's all over R57....Are you going to spend the next 20 years trying to convince yourself that you didn't cheat? After the East and West integrate and more of the older Easties retire you might find yourself in a very lonely cockpit.
Let me ask you some questions Mr High and Mighty, and be honest. Have you read the TA? The Nicolau opinion and award? Have you reviewed the Kirby proposal? Have you read the transcripts of all the lawsuits? And finally.......Did you read Judge Silver's latest ruling? If so, did you catch the reason she couldn't rule that USAPA failed it's DFR on the MOU? Did you see the part about our scope? Do you realize what the EAST pilots gave up for the MOU?
Get back to me.
01-11-2014, 06:17 AM
#2408
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 321
I have read them all. I even read the Nic transcripts and his reasoning for adopting the NIC award.
I don't think you or all East pilots are bad. I certainly am far from "high and mighty." I just think a poisonous element took control of your union and found a very clever way to weasel their way out of past obligations. I think other than judge Wake the courts have been too weak to make definitive rulings. I think it's a symptom of a greater problem in this country. Criminals elements be it corporations or bankers and now unions get away with repugnant actions on a daily basis.
But I think it will be a hollow victory for you. Certainly not one to be proud of.
Here's an excerpt from the ruling which I guess you have already read. I find it laughable that she thinks USAPA would even begin to consider fairly representing the West after receiving a verbal warning.
The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of CAB, “make every effort to see that [the West Pilots’] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fairly and fully represented” during seniority integration.
I don't think you or all East pilots are bad. I certainly am far from "high and mighty." I just think a poisonous element took control of your union and found a very clever way to weasel their way out of past obligations. I think other than judge Wake the courts have been too weak to make definitive rulings. I think it's a symptom of a greater problem in this country. Criminals elements be it corporations or bankers and now unions get away with repugnant actions on a daily basis.
But I think it will be a hollow victory for you. Certainly not one to be proud of.
Here's an excerpt from the ruling which I guess you have already read. I find it laughable that she thinks USAPA would even begin to consider fairly representing the West after receiving a verbal warning.
The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of CAB, “make every effort to see that [the West Pilots’] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fairly and fully represented” during seniority integration.
01-11-2014, 06:20 AM
#2409
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
I have read them all. I even read the Nic transcripts and his reasoning for adopting the NIC award.
I don't think you or all East pilots are bad. I certainly am far from "high and mighty." I just think a poisonous element took control of your union and found a very clever way to weasel their way out of past obligations. I think other than judge Wake the courts have been too weak to make definitive rulings. I think it's a symptom of a greater problem in this country. Criminals elements be it corporations or bankers and now unions get away with repugnant actions on a daily basis.
But I think it will be a hollow victory for you. Certainly not one to be proud of.
Here's an excerpt from the ruling which I guess you have already read. I find it laughable that she thinks USAPA would even begin to consider fairly representing the West after receiving a verbal warning.
The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of CAB, “make every effort to see that [the West Pilots’] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fairly and fully represented” during seniority integration.
I don't think you or all East pilots are bad. I certainly am far from "high and mighty." I just think a poisonous element took control of your union and found a very clever way to weasel their way out of past obligations. I think other than judge Wake the courts have been too weak to make definitive rulings. I think it's a symptom of a greater problem in this country. Criminals elements be it corporations or bankers and now unions get away with repugnant actions on a daily basis.
But I think it will be a hollow victory for you. Certainly not one to be proud of.
Here's an excerpt from the ruling which I guess you have already read. I find it laughable that she thinks USAPA would even begin to consider fairly representing the West after receiving a verbal warning.
The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative. But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of CAB, “make every effort to see that [the West Pilots’] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fairly and fully represented” during seniority integration.
01-11-2014, 06:21 AM
#2410
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
So Laker, if you were an east pilot you would have just accepted the Kirby award and the Nic and gone on with life?
How much do you think the EAST's Change of control and code share restrictions were worth?
How much do you think the EAST's Change of control and code share restrictions were worth?
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