EMBFlyer

Yeah, but we've heard from multiple sources that US will be adopting AA's FOM. Our Boeings (757s/767s) will be going to your procedures and your Airbuses (Airbii) have already gone to our procedures. This very well could be to get us to SOC quicker and then they'll be some tweaking down the road, though.

SewerPipeDvr

SB and EMB, Thank you for your information. Are the over water procedures the same for both types (AB and Boeing) or would different methods continue?

SewerPipeDvr

You would be wrong. Neither one of them knows the law, I have read some of their "legal" theories. They don't really realize just what they are getting themselves into with a separate seat at MB. I liken it to two people holding a hand grenade with the pin out. They can't let it go and won't turn each other loose. So both go boom together.

EMBFlyer

I'm on the little Bus, so I can't answer to that. The only over water stuff we do is the WATRS area down to the islands. I can't speak for the 330 or 767 guys.

Wiskey Driver

Not entirely true however I will leave it at that. I will say that you seem to assume that the west having separate representation will in some way backfire but you give no explanation as to how you come to this conclusion.

Now with regard to the "LAW" and arbitration(s), I am sure I don't have to tell you that unless a party can prove some sort of malfeasance on the part of the arbitrator there is virtually no getting out of the result. Usapa has proven that they only represent the east thus our getting a fair shake in any sli with them at the helm is not even questionable.

I am very interested in your theories of how our having separate representation before the MB arbitration panel will somehow harm us.

WD at AWA

SewerPipeDvr

It dawned on me this morning about 0530 that you really don't understand what is about to happen to you. You have no clue what arbitration is. You are supposed to be a professional pilot and you don't even know how SLI and possible arbitration will affect your career. I am amazed. Lets start class from the beginning. Two companies merge. That requires the two pilot groups to merge. This is FEDERAL ARBITRATION. Both sides will meet and try to decide who gets what, where. APA is much larger and much stronger (not only in size but operations ie WB. USAPA is weak and divided into two or three. West may or may not get a seat but they won't help the East. The East is divided into three (current leadership, challengers, and a big bunch of dumb rocks that don't seem to care they just go along). Now if APA and USAPA cannot agree with each other they both go to arbitration. You put your jobs on the table. APA does the same. That means what you have in the MOU is going to change. Your WB flying in the MOU is NOT exempt. It's just like poker. You might win or you might lose. You might lose a lot or a little. And unlike the last arbitration you don't have a choice, you must by law, play the arbitration game. And APA is playing from an overwhelming position. That will affect the outcome. Just like it did with UAL.
The best predictor of what will happen is to look at the most recent, the UAL and CAL SLI. UAL won a lot of chips. CAL lost SOME chips, but not all. Their leaders tried to bluff that they were just as badass as UAL. That was a weak hand and it broke them. Now the question will be how does the arbitrators look at USAir. Do they see a equal to a legacy or do they see a fractured weak carrier? The 800lb gorilla in the room is how they see the NIC arbitration. They SHOULD NOT punish the East but they are a funny breed. Throw your dice and takes your chances. This is a LEGAL confrontation and emotion does not have anything to do with it. And a bit of advice, don't even think you can overcome a Federal Arbitration. Very strict and high standards for that (basically you have to catch the arbitrator taking a bribe, on film in front of twenty virgins). You really need to learn what is going to happen to your career. Perhaps you might know just what to try to do to influence it (hint- get the rocks off their duff, organize and demand better or both leadership groups) instead of showing your ignorance on a internet board. I am leaving in four days back to the islands for the winter. Won't be back just too much to do. Thank you people that gave civil replies to my questions. The others ESAD.

SewerPipeDvr

Caught this after posting to a rock. My free guesstimate, for what its worth. I would not expect a SLI MB process to right the wrongs of the past. That is a different legal process. You are really opposing APA. Their only legal responsibility is to get the best deal for their CURRENT members. Not the West. They will certainly use the West against the East to get their members the very best deal. A separate seat that represents only West pilots is a weak position. You can hurt the East if you want to but you will be damaged just as much. If Judge Silver finds for the DFR and requires the East to use the NIC the East will not help the West and be damaged just as much. APA wins either way.

As far as mixing the previous arbitration in with this one unless Judge Silver finds fault in a timely fashion it will be as currently is. They kept you in Az and off the WBs and you kept them at the bottom of the pilot world with low pay and bad benefits. If she finds DFR she could impose sanctions before USAPA closes down and force East members to pay. Not likely IMHO. Legally the East does not have a leg to stand on. Seham's strategy was to delay as long as possible. But that requires both sides pain. Like I stated above both sides were tossing a grenade back and forth. Both got injured. I honestly think if Seham was still running that show the East would have got away longer.

Wiskey Driver

Hahahahah "posting to a rock" that's funny I guess you have yet to figure out that you're in a rock quarry!

I see where it is you are coming from and I too do not believe that MB SLI will do what the east thinks it will and give them a second bite at the apple. I think for what its worth that the court will not force usapa to use the list. I do however think that her ruling will in some way make it clear to the other party or parties that not using the list will open them up to litigation. I further feel that this should be enough for the company and that it will not wish to risk having to be named in a law suit. The east is no longer the threat they once felt they were.

The east never had a case and anyone that knows one once of the law could see that. Their only defense was "its not fair" and that simply does not rise to that standard of having an arbitration overturned. Usapa was able to do what it did not because the east had a case but because it was financially beneficial to LCC to keep the focus on the pilots and not on management. Now ad quod damnum the west should be made whole.

WD at AWA

TXHillCountry

Unrelated to this discussion, but isn't that term redundant?

R57 relay

Let me give you a tip about Mr. Parker. He is very quick to say things and often he comes back with "What I meant was.........."

As the above poster stated, it's been reported that we will use AA Boeing procedures and your....whatever you call your Flt ops manual.