AOL update
#1671
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
WOW!!! That thing just shot holes all in usapa's trash can. No cases they presented were on point and it makes their legal team look foolish.
Don't expect replies from the likes of Relay, a321fo, crazipilot or even flybywire on this one as none of them will have an intelligent response to this filing.
WD at AWA
Don't expect replies from the likes of Relay, a321fo, crazipilot or even flybywire on this one as none of them will have an intelligent response to this filing.
WD at AWA
What exactly would you like for me to say? "Yep, it's over! Siegel says it so it must be so. Looks like we will start with the Nic just like Siegel says we should. Oh wait, he didn't say that and the company didn't put that in the MOU...."
Most of 278 he spends restating AOL's position and stating that whether USAPA is correct or not is irrelevant because the west is Nic or nothing. Maybe it is, I'm not a lawyer. But the fact is none of these documents are rulings. We have to wait for what Judge Silver rules and then what appeals either side might try. Just a little warning and do with it what you want, you got all excited about these types of things on Silver's last trial and you were severely disappointed.
At a minimum I expect Silver to give the west separate standing in MB. What that does and what we all do is yet to be seen.
#1673
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A330
Posts: 1,043
At first glance, the company is covering their ass.
Sounds like the Hatfields & McCoys.
If you *****es wanna come fly to Europe from Philly that's fine, 2 of my houses are on the west coast.
Cigar boy is gonna report me to some agency.
#1675
OMFG. Cannot believe you actually took my response literally.
At first glance, the company is covering their ass.
Sounds like the Hatfields & McCoys.
If you *****es wanna come fly to Europe from Philly that's fine, 2 of my houses are on the west coast.
Cigar boy is gonna report me to some agency.
At first glance, the company is covering their ass.
Sounds like the Hatfields & McCoys.
If you *****es wanna come fly to Europe from Philly that's fine, 2 of my houses are on the west coast.
Cigar boy is gonna report me to some agency.
This is not about reporting to agencies or where you live. This is about honoring thy word young man, something that I am certain your parents took time to teach you. I have no desire to commute 3hrs to fly an 8hr trip. That's a young mans game and I am not in that.
WD at AWA
#1676
Here I am!
What exactly would you like for me to say? "Yep, it's over! Siegel says it so it must be so. Looks like we will start with the Nic just like Siegel says we should. Oh wait, he didn't say that and the company didn't put that in the MOU...."
Most of 278 he spends restating AOL's position and stating that whether USAPA is correct or not is irrelevant because the west is Nic or nothing. Maybe it is, I'm not a lawyer. But the fact is none of these documents are rulings. We have to wait for what Judge Silver rules and then what appeals either side might try. Just a little warning and do with it what you want, you got all excited about these types of things on Silver's last trial and you were severely disappointed.
At a minimum I expect Silver to give the west separate standing in MB. What that does and what we all do is yet to be seen.
What exactly would you like for me to say? "Yep, it's over! Siegel says it so it must be so. Looks like we will start with the Nic just like Siegel says we should. Oh wait, he didn't say that and the company didn't put that in the MOU...."
Most of 278 he spends restating AOL's position and stating that whether USAPA is correct or not is irrelevant because the west is Nic or nothing. Maybe it is, I'm not a lawyer. But the fact is none of these documents are rulings. We have to wait for what Judge Silver rules and then what appeals either side might try. Just a little warning and do with it what you want, you got all excited about these types of things on Silver's last trial and you were severely disappointed.
At a minimum I expect Silver to give the west separate standing in MB. What that does and what we all do is yet to be seen.
So tell me Relay what are the usapa issues that you think they can appeal?
WD at AWA
#1677
#1678
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Here I am!
What exactly would you like for me to say? "Yep, it's over! Siegel says it so it must be so. Looks like we will start with the Nic just like Siegel says we should. Oh wait, he didn't say that and the company didn't put that in the MOU...."
Most of 278 he spends restating AOL's position and stating that whether USAPA is correct or not is irrelevant because the west is Nic or nothing. Maybe it is, I'm not a lawyer. But the fact is none of these documents are rulings. We have to wait for what Judge Silver rules and then what appeals either side might try. Just a little warning and do with it what you want, you got all excited about these types of things on Silver's last trial and you were severely disappointed.
At a minimum I expect Silver to give the west separate standing in MB. What that does and what we all do is yet to be seen.
What exactly would you like for me to say? "Yep, it's over! Siegel says it so it must be so. Looks like we will start with the Nic just like Siegel says we should. Oh wait, he didn't say that and the company didn't put that in the MOU...."
Most of 278 he spends restating AOL's position and stating that whether USAPA is correct or not is irrelevant because the west is Nic or nothing. Maybe it is, I'm not a lawyer. But the fact is none of these documents are rulings. We have to wait for what Judge Silver rules and then what appeals either side might try. Just a little warning and do with it what you want, you got all excited about these types of things on Silver's last trial and you were severely disappointed.
At a minimum I expect Silver to give the west separate standing in MB. What that does and what we all do is yet to be seen.
#1679
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
#1680
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
I'm responding to posts in the "OFFICIAL: Suit Settled, Merger to Happen" thread that should have originally been posted here:
Ok you really want to know something,
No, but go ahead and tell me anyway.
it takes far more time for you to respond to a post on the thread than to just ignore it.
True, but I only fly 10 hours a month!
But seriously, I read and opt out of responding to most West/East posts so that the fewer objective posts I make ring more true than the usual East v. West noise.
The truth is that one side will never change the other
I just said that in my last post.
nor does Silver troll here.
I also just said that in my last post.
WD at AWA
FWB at 'merkin in US Airways colors
No, but go ahead and tell me anyway.
it takes far more time for you to respond to a post on the thread than to just ignore it.
True, but I only fly 10 hours a month!
But seriously, I read and opt out of responding to most West/East posts so that the fewer objective posts I make ring more true than the usual East v. West noise.
The truth is that one side will never change the other
I just said that in my last post.
nor does Silver troll here.
I also just said that in my last post.
WD at AWA
FWB at 'merkin in US Airways colors
Ok, OK, Thanks Relay and WD. i know your respective positions on this matter.
My intent was to engage flybywire as to why he thinks the west is equally responsible since he is a fellow third lister.
I apologize for sinking this thread further.
Perhaps flybywire would prefer to respond via PM
My intent was to engage flybywire as to why he thinks the west is equally responsible since he is a fellow third lister.
I apologize for sinking this thread further.
Perhaps flybywire would prefer to respond via PM
Okay, so shrinking economies are not fun. East and West were each failing carriers both in and near bankruptcy. As hard as life had been for each group it proved impossible for these groups to accept the idea of further lowering expectations—jobs/furloughs were literally on the line. Both East and West leadership failed to cooperate effectively. May we attribute this to incompatible or incompetent West and/or East union leadership? —Maybe. Regardless, people respond to incentives and our legal system certainly makes them available. Each group sought every opportunity to manipulate facts and reality to seek advantages over the other.
The East/West process was very disingenuous and so was everyone involved. This theme of ill-will and manipulation plays into the legal system that we, as a nation, live under. Legalese has nothing to do with Justice and nothing to do with what is right. Both East and West leadership subscribed to these notions and I hold both groups responsible for employing such wretched context.
Code:
But we do live in a world where people do not have to honor obligations. I'm not advocating it, but look at bankruptcy, foreclosure, how Goldsman Sachs sold financial instruments they knew were going to fail, and the US governments near default two days ago. We live in a world based on law not justice. People often manipulate the legal system to (and do) get away with murder. Flybywire44 on 10-18-2013 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/am...ml#post1504104
I don't know what "the west was supposed to do," but (and in keeping with the theme of mutual ill-will and manipulation) I think it is safe to say that West pilots have the option to contact their PHX USAPA representatives to ask them "to do anything."
More directly, West ALPA leadership's last chance to move SLI/JCBA talks forward were the Nicolai MOU talks that took place between East & West ALPA. These negotiations took place weeks before USAPA was voted in... dreadfully ironic.
Let us remember that after NIC was awarded East ALPA suspended all contract negotiations and ALPA National threatened, on behalf of West ALPA through Capt Prater, to appoint a new MEC for the East from another airline to run the US Airways MEC and negotiate a new contract for US Air East. But these threats from ALPA National (and West ALPA) stalled when everyone realized USAPA had started gaining serious traction among East pilots. West ALPA stubbornly refused to negotiate an MOU to the NIC until the 11th hour before USAPA swiftly became certified for a vote. I think MOU negotiations lasted a couple weeks before West and East ALPA were dissolved.
The very threat of USAPA forming triggered a Nicolai MOU, but also killed it prematurely. —This is USAPA's greatest sin in my opinion.
Flyby wire is a complete idiot if that is indeed what he believes, it's akin to blaming a rape victim for being assaulted.
Hi Cacti,
It is not nice to call people names.
Your simile is completely wrong. West ALPA is not a rape victim blamed for assault. East and West are actually two high school girls fighting to pull each other's hair out, but to everyone's surprise West happened to be wearing a weave.
Put your eyes on this document filed by the company to see how twisted his logic is when compared to the truth.
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...Mot_for_SJ.pdf
The East/West dispute means nothing to Airways, but threat of liability in a potential DFR probably has Airways's attention. Airways may only be ensuring that they have no liability in the future DFR case AOL may attempt.
Manipulation breeds manipulation.
FBW
Hi Cacti,
It is not nice to call people names.
Your simile is completely wrong. West ALPA is not a rape victim blamed for assault. East and West are actually two high school girls fighting to pull each other's hair out, but to everyone's surprise West happened to be wearing a weave.
Put your eyes on this document filed by the company to see how twisted his logic is when compared to the truth.
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...Mot_for_SJ.pdf
The East/West dispute means nothing to Airways, but threat of liability in a potential DFR probably has Airways's attention. Airways may only be ensuring that they have no liability in the future DFR case AOL may attempt.
Manipulation breeds manipulation.
FBW
Finally, please don't give me a hard time for not wanting to take sides in this BS as I discriminate equally.
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