AOL update
10-23-2013, 08:15 PM
#1562
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Court was great, east got caught in lie after lie. Hummel and Bradford refused to show (Hummel telephonically). We expected that so we videotaped Bradford to show the court. I think it says a lot when the founder and current president of usapa refuse to testify, don't you?
10-23-2013, 08:41 PM
#1563
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Court was great, east got caught in lie after lie. Hummel and Bradford refused to show (Hummel telephonically). We expected that so we videotaped Bradford to show the court. I think it says a lot when the founder and current president of usapa refuse to testify, don't you?
What was the deal on 10h?
10-23-2013, 10:21 PM
#1564
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
25· · · ·Q.· ·I'm going to show you, Mr. Bradford, and
·1· this may be our last document, what I've identified
·2· as Exhibit 1062, e-mail from you to Mr. Pauley and
·3· others, April 25, 2013.
·4· · · · · · Did you write this e-mail?
·5· · · ·A.· ·Apparently so, yes.
·6· · · ·Q.· ·You write in the first paragraph, Jess,
·7· Jess raised the question of the dismissal of the
·8· pled, P-L-E-D, preliminary injunction in Addington I.
·9· Here is that decision.· In Addington II, Roman
10· numeral two, the court dismissed the company because
11· they were not in cohorts with USAPA.
12· · · · · · Then you continue to write, here the union
13· and the company are in concert.· We have agreed to a
14· new seniority process that does not include the
15· Nicolau award.
16· · · · · · What did you mean by that?
17· · · ·A.· ·We've just -- just what it says.· We
18· have -- the company and the union and APA and the
19· parties to the MOU have agreed on a new process for
20· seniority that is not tied to the old transition
21· agreement.
22· · · ·Q.· ·It does not include the Nicolau?
23· · · ·A.· ·It -- it -- that could be a misstatement.
24· It includes a new process.· If the board wants the
25· Nic, they could have the Nic.
·1· · · ·Q.· ·But that didn't -- that's not what you
·2· wrote.· You -- you wrote you're in cohorts -- cohorts
·3· with the --
·4· · · · · · MS. AXEL:· Cahoots.
·5· · · ·Q.· ·-- cahoots with the company, Airways,
·6· because you agreed to a new seniority process that
·7· does not include the Nicolau.
·8· · · ·A.· ·We factored --
·9· · · ·Q.· ·Those were your -- those are your words --
10· · · ·A.· ·No, the words are --
11· · · ·Q.· ·No, let me -- let me, let me.· Those are
12· your words and your e-mail on April 25, 2013,
13· correct?
14· · · ·A.· ·Incorrect.
15· · · ·Q.· ·Why?
16· · · ·A.· ·We're not in cahoots with the company,
17· we've acted in concert with the company.
18· · · ·Q.· ·Concert.
19· · · · · · What's the difference?
20· · · ·A.· ·We sat at the table, negotiated, arrived
21· at an MOU with all the parties which provides for a
22· new seniority process.
23· · · ·Q.· ·And you still believe that?
24· · · ·A.· ·Yes.· And that process --
25· · · ·Q.· ·That does not include the Nicolau?
·1· · · ·A.· ·Well, it's neutral on its terms.
·2· · · ·Q.· ·You say it eliminated the -- the
·3· requirement to use the -- the Nicolau.· So how can
·4· that be neutral?
·5· · · ·A.· ·Because the Nicolau award or date of hire
·6· or any other seniority solution and outcome does
·7· not appear in the document.
·8· · · ·Q.· ·Just because it doesn't appear, it's
·9· neutral?
10· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
11· · · ·Q.· ·But the effect of it is -- from your point
12· of view is to take away the requirement to use the
13· Nicolau?
14· · · ·A.· ·Yes, the transition agreement has been
15· amended, that is correct.
16· · · ·Q.· ·All right.· And to set up a process where
17· the majority is going to rule what's presented to the
18· McCaskill-Bond committee?
19· · · ·A.· ·Without any negotiation, yes.
10-24-2013, 12:30 AM
#1565
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Btw, this should disgust every airline pilot:
Excerpt Bradford (usapa founder) deposition:
It gets even better, this is what this psychopath believes he accomplished:
wow, $7 mil investigating their terminated pension all while being the lowest paid pilots in the country
Excerpt Bradford (usapa founder) deposition:
10· · · ·Q.· ·Do you know how close the seven-year rates 11· under the Kirby, if it had been passed in August of 12· 2007, so seven years out, those rates with the
13· increases that were included, how close they are to 14· the rates that are included in the MOU?
15· · · ·A.· ·At this point in time they're probably 16· close.· But I don't know.
17· · · ·Q.· ·They are.· They're really pretty close. 18· · · ·A.· ·Um-hum.
19· · · ·Q.· ·So, in essence, one way to look at this is
20· USAPA didn't gain at the end much over the Kirby as 21· it would have again been available to the pilots if 22· they have ratified back in 2007, right?
23· · · ·A.· ·I don't know if I'd express it that way, 24· but that's your contention.
25· · · ·Q.· ·You don't disagree with that, though?
·A.· ·Okay.· I don't disagree with that.
13· increases that were included, how close they are to 14· the rates that are included in the MOU?
15· · · ·A.· ·At this point in time they're probably 16· close.· But I don't know.
17· · · ·Q.· ·They are.· They're really pretty close. 18· · · ·A.· ·Um-hum.
19· · · ·Q.· ·So, in essence, one way to look at this is
20· USAPA didn't gain at the end much over the Kirby as 21· it would have again been available to the pilots if 22· they have ratified back in 2007, right?
23· · · ·A.· ·I don't know if I'd express it that way, 24· but that's your contention.
25· · · ·Q.· ·You don't disagree with that, though?
·A.· ·Okay.· I don't disagree with that.
·2· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So let me ask you the question, if ·3· the ultimate outcome of this litigation is that the ·4· Nicolau must be used to integrate with the APA list ·5· and the McCaskill-Bond process, what have you gained ·6· by going away from ALPA and forming USAPA?
·7· · · ·A.· ·We've gained our own independence, we
·8· spent almost $7 million on trying to recover our ·9· pension, okay, which ALPA was not going to do
10· because they signed it away.· This is what the
11· pilots wanted.· They've spent almost as much money 12· on pension recovery as they have for seniority.
13· They run their own union, they have a say in it, 14· they don't have to kowtow to national.· And the -- 15· the overall response we get is most pilots would 16· still rather be independent of U- -- of ALPA.
17· · · ·Q.· ·So you think even if the Nic is used after 18· all of this time and the lost pay in between, it was 19· still worth it from your point of view?
20· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
·7· · · ·A.· ·We've gained our own independence, we
·8· spent almost $7 million on trying to recover our ·9· pension, okay, which ALPA was not going to do
10· because they signed it away.· This is what the
11· pilots wanted.· They've spent almost as much money 12· on pension recovery as they have for seniority.
13· They run their own union, they have a say in it, 14· they don't have to kowtow to national.· And the -- 15· the overall response we get is most pilots would 16· still rather be independent of U- -- of ALPA.
17· · · ·Q.· ·So you think even if the Nic is used after 18· all of this time and the lost pay in between, it was 19· still worth it from your point of view?
20· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
Last edited by cactiboss; 10-24-2013 at 12:58 AM.
10-24-2013, 05:53 AM
#1567
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
No one would admit writing until a flustered Pauly pointed at Pat Symansky. More interesting is Bradford video deposition, here is the las page of the transcript:
I guess you get the gist, usapa lied to the west on what the mou meant, it was all planned to fool us into voting for it.
I guess you get the gist, usapa lied to the west on what the mou meant, it was all planned to fool us into voting for it.
As far as USAPA "fooling" you-I know you don't have a straight face as you typed that. How in world could "they" fool you as one of the members of the NAC that produced the MOU is one of the main members of AOL? That is one of the most BS statements I've ever heard.
10-24-2013, 09:10 AM
#1568
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Read the transcripts of day 2.
10-24-2013, 12:02 PM
#1570
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
It depends on what the judge thinks she can order. The company asked for the west to have our own seat at MB, and we asked for the same plus the Nic. to be presented as the only list as well as for the Nic. To be implemented no later than February 8th 2014 (12 mos after mou vote since TA has a 12 mos implementation window)
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